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Doc. View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Doc. Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 13 Jun 2020 at 20:32
I've read a lot of articles on Bike-V-car Oil, from Oil companies, to Bike Mags, and the only thing I can find mentioned is the friction modifiers in 'car' Oils, that might cause Clutch Slip in Bikes with wet Clutches.

If the Specs of the Oil are the same, then use what you like, or can find easily.

Recommended Oil for the Stelvio is Agip Racing 4T 10W-60. 
It also states in the manual, that "As an alternative to recommended fluids, use top branded Oils with performances that meet or exceed the requirements of CCMC G-4 API. SG specifications.

Any Oil you can find that meets, or exceeds those specs, can be used.
Considering we're talking about specs that were current in 2008, that shouldn't be too hard. 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Brian UK Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 13 Jun 2020 at 21:53
Add to that, many motorcycle engines these days are water cooled, so the temperature range is identical.

But as has been said many times, ask 20 people what oil to use and you usually get over 20 different answers. Same applies to tyres.
If you change it often enough, I'm reliably informed that yak fat will suffice.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Doc. Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 14 Jun 2020 at 01:21
Ah yes, but we're talking about our Oil-Cooled Guzzis . . . Wink
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Brian UK Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 14 Jun 2020 at 08:00
Do they run any hotter? Not convinced, and not as hot as air cooled on a hot day in a traffic jam.

Besides which all fully synthetic oils will work perfectly well at high temperatires, regardless of whether they have the "motorcycle" lable on the container.

Of course, adding that magic word to the lable does allow a much higher price to be attached.


Edited by Brian UK - 14 Jun 2020 at 08:03
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote AdrianW Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 14 Jun 2020 at 09:25
Synthetic oils are great but they do have the habit of escaping from any available weakness in the casings. They do seem to be thinner for any given viscosity.
You won't usually find British bike owners using it unless they have personally rebuilt the thing and ground every mating surface perfectly flat !!

PO of my V35II allegedly used fully synth when he last chaged the oils. They are very clean and could explain why some is escaping from the front (alternator) oil seal...

Cheers,
Adrian
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote TooJuicy Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 14 Jun 2020 at 10:39
My source was a document produced by Shell on oils,  they used several different makes of motorcycle engines & car engine s in their research labs outside Manchester. Shell believes motorcycle engine s rev higher in use than car engines and engines run hotter, particularly piston temperatures.

Shell does formulate its motorcycle oils differently for that reason.  In the higher temperatures found in high-revving m/c engines oils tend to oxidise which m/c oils resist.  Car engine oils are designed for heavily cooled low revving engines to provide the highest mpg.

Quality oils will meet the international standards but that bar is low so that doesn't imply the oils yield similar performance, just that they're better than yak fat.

Synthetic oil of itself shouldn't cause leaking problems.  Synthetic oils are not "thinner" than mineral oils, theiradvantage is they're more consistent and therefore last longer.  Mineral oil is what comes out of the ground and the carbon chains are all different lengths so you are getting a soup of useful hydrocarbon chains mixed with others either too long or too short to be effective over time.  Synthetic oil is made from hydrocarbon chains made in the right length, so it's all good stuff.  In a nutshell that's why it lasts longer, it starts off containing lots more of the good stuff so as they get chopped and fried you have more useful hydrocarbons left.  It is not thinner or runnier unless the oil company wants to make it that way.

Tony
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote Brian UK Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 14 Jun 2020 at 11:38
Originally posted by AdrianW AdrianW wrote:

Synthetic oils are great but they do have the habit of escaping from any available weakness in the casings. They do seem to be thinner for any given viscosity.
You won't usually find British bike owners using it unless they have personally rebuilt the thing and ground every mating surface perfectly flat !!

PO of my V35II allegedly used fully synth when he last chaged the oils. They are very clean and could explain why some is escaping from the front (alternator) oil seal...

Cheers,
Adrian
Bristol UK

But we are talking of new bikes, where fully synthetic oil is specified.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote AdrianW Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 14 Jun 2020 at 18:21
Brian,
Ahh, hadn't spotted that, sorry.. In that case nowt wrong with synthetic but I'd use one specified for motorcyles.
I use fully synth car oil in both our cars despite their age , I always have done & consider as I change the stuff myself  the extra cost is well worth paying. "You pays yer money..."
Interesting that it isn't really thinner , looks like I've got a bl**dy seal to attend to then...

Cheers,
Adrian
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote TurcoLoco Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 15 Jun 2020 at 20:47
Originally posted by AdrianW AdrianW wrote:

Synthetic oils are great but they do have the habit of escaping from any available weakness in the casings. They do seem to be thinner for any given viscosity.
You won't usually find British bike owners using it unless they have personally rebuilt the thing and ground every mating surface perfectly flat !!

PO of my V35II allegedly used fully synth when he last chaged the oils. They are very clean and could explain why some is escaping from the front (alternator) oil seal...

Cheers,
Adrian
Bristol UK

I am no expert but during my many chats with my master mechanic friend, I heard him mention older bikes (primarily pre 90s) using older seal/gaskets that may not play well with the additives in newer types of oil.

I am not sure if the bike in question was using all newer, appropriate type seals or ones made based on old (original) specs. It was my understanding that the synthetic oil could have additives that eat thru the gaskets and seal that were made for older type oils that didn't contain them.

Same thing goes for using fuel additives as well. Of course, there are other variables too. 

Based on my research friction modifiers was the main reason why car oils (even with the same specs) were not suitable for wet clutches. I didn't see any reference to MC oil being better for higher revving engines but I will dig further on that to see if there is such a valid fact which would make a difference in my future oil purchases. Since Guzzi are not, I am definitely curious about the Liqui Molly 10w-60 I will be getting today. I will do the oil change after a short 10-minute ride. I am definitely curious of the outcome. Price wise, at least for Liqui Molly, both oils were the same so cost is no longer a factor, imho.

Liqui Molly recommended oil for my bike seems to be different though!? I will try their recommendation on the next oil change just to compare but their recommended oil seemed a few bucks more.

I figured I share my $0.02's worth

Thank you all again for your input! Wink


Edited by TurcoLoco - 15 Jun 2020 at 21:00
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Brian UK Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 15 Jun 2020 at 22:26
I can guarantee one thing, you won't notice the difference.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote TurcoLoco Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 16 Jun 2020 at 03:08
Did you mean between the one I just got and the motorbike specific oil they recommended which sells for 15-20% more?

I reckon you are right! Embarrassed
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote TooJuicy Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 17 Jun 2020 at 15:42
Originally posted by TurcoLoco TurcoLoco wrote:

I didn't see any reference to MC oil being better for higher revving engines but I will dig further on that to see if there is such a valid fact which would make a difference in my future oil purchases. 

Unfortunately Shell has revamped its websites and the old paper I discovered on M/C oils has been replaced with marketing talk.  That said, the new site does mention the detrimental effect on oils of the smaller oil sumps in m/c vs cars, mentioned in the earlier paper which I'd forgotten.  

This summary is about all you get from them now:-

" Motorcycle engines operate in a compact, high stress & high heat environment, and need a dedicated motorcycle oil to lubricate and protect the engines, gear box and clutch, all within a relatively small oil sump. The engine oil stress factor in a motorcycle can be three times that of a car.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Brian UK Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 17 Jun 2020 at 16:00
But we are talking of Guzzis here not ultra high revving machines.
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