guzziriders.org - moto guzzi forum Homepage
Forum Home Forum Home > Technical > Oil
  New Posts New Posts RSS Feed - Wondering...
  FAQ FAQ  Forum Search   Events   Register Register  Login Login

Wondering...

 Post Reply Post Reply Page  12>
Author
Message
TurcoLoco View Drop Down
Falcone
Falcone
Avatar

Joined: 20 Jan 2019
Location: California
Status: Offline
Points: 28
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote TurcoLoco Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Topic: Wondering...
    Posted: 11 Jun 2020 at 07:27
Hi All,

I am new to MG motorcycles and dry sump clutch. On Japanese bikes I rode before, engine oil really mattered and couldn't have friction modifiers but with MG bikes, it is not quite as important, or am I wrong?

Anyhow, as I was shopping around online for a decent to great oil for my Stelvio. I came by Liqui Molly 10w-50 synthetic motorcycle race engine oil. Has anyone used that brand and oil type in a Stelvio before?
I am guessing it would not cause any problems but I wanted to check here to see what oil people prefer to use for a Stelvio?

My bike's maintenance will be due really soon and I wanted to try this oil.
For gearbox, I was thinking about using Red Line V-Twin transmission oil (should be OK to use it for CARC too, right?)

I'd welcome any input on what I should look into using and what to stay away from!

TIA
Back to Top
Brian UK View Drop Down
Moderator Group
Moderator Group
Avatar

Joined: 13 May 2014
Location: Surrey
Status: Offline
Points: 13450
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote Brian UK Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11 Jun 2020 at 07:41
I use Redline V Twin in both the gearbox and CARC unit. It helps to reduce the clunks you can get with gearchanges.

Regarding engine oil, the manual clearly states 10W60 oil, whay do you want to put in something else? That weight of oil was specified for a good reason, and in your warmer climate, it is essential.

But it's your bike, your money.
Brian.

Better 5 minutes late in this world than years early in the next.
Back to Top
TurcoLoco View Drop Down
Falcone
Falcone
Avatar

Joined: 20 Jan 2019
Location: California
Status: Offline
Points: 28
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote TurcoLoco Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11 Jun 2020 at 18:49
Thank you for the input Brian!

If I am not mistaken, the weight of the oil is the same for both, 10w, and the second number I was told was temperature meaning thinner/thicker oil or am I mistaken??

It is warmer where I live than say, UK perhaps, but far from hot. It was in the 60 up until this week, now lingering around 70-75 most days. 

During the 600-mile service they did use Lucas 10w-50 oil as well so I didn't think it would be an issue.

I found the Liqui Molly 10w-60 but it didn't have the "Motorcycle" mentioned on it so I went with this one. Though, I could swap it if needed.

Anyone any thoughts?

TIA

Back to Top
Richard Hyatt View Drop Down
Senior Member
Senior Member


Joined: 14 Oct 2019
Location: Dorset
Status: Offline
Points: 441
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote Richard Hyatt Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11 Jun 2020 at 19:24
stay with what the book says really - 10-60

the 10 means runny and thin when you start it up the oil gets everywhere quickly (most wear occurs in the first 10secs after all the oil drains down overnight)

the 60 means thicker at the running temperature and ambient temperature

in general you're a warmer ambient temp - stay with 10-60

as an aside, I worked as a tech for many years and the manufacturers loved to find ways of getting out of warranty claims if they could.
we had engine claims which were rejected as the owner had used the wrong oil in the engine during servicing, causing something to fail - which then (after their technical inspection) showed wrong oil used

given the huge spectrum of engine oils for cars and bikes - use the manufacturers recommendations
Back to Top
Doc. View Drop Down
Senior Member
Senior Member
Avatar

Joined: 17 Sep 2015
Location: South Bucks
Status: Online
Points: 430
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote Doc. Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11 Jun 2020 at 19:36
As said, don't 'skimp' on the 60 part.
It's primarily an Oil-Cooled Engine.
The pump has two sections, one feeds the Bearings , the other pumps Oil through the Cooler, then to the Heads, where it floods the areas around the Exhaust Valves.
It will get VERY hot there, in any climate, so you need the protection of the '60' rating.

I personally use a 20W-60 in Summer, and a 10W-60 in Winter.
The difference between a 10W and 20W (IMO) only matters if it's going to be used in sub-zero temps.

It's also important to get the Oil properly hot in cold/damp climates.
The Oil in mine would never get over around 70°C in winter, when ambient temps were around 8-12°C or so, less if it rained as well.
Fully Synthetic Oils are designed to work best at around 115-120°C and higher, running at such low temps isn't good for the Engine.
You'll get 'mayo' settling in your Valve Covers, which means there's moisture in the Oil that's not 'boiling off', also not good for the Engine, or Oil.

There's no Thermostat in the System, which is crazy really for an Oil-Cooled Engine, imagine if a car maker tried to sell a car with no thermostat in the cooling system.

That's why I made a Thermostat Unit for mine, and why I covered my Oil Cooler in Winter before that.

Lastly, because of the Dry Clutch, you're not restricted to using Bike-specific Oils, so there's much more choice, as long as the one you choose meets the relevant specs.

Back to Top
Brian UK View Drop Down
Moderator Group
Moderator Group
Avatar

Joined: 13 May 2014
Location: Surrey
Status: Offline
Points: 13450
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote Brian UK Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11 Jun 2020 at 22:30
You do not need a specific motorcycle oil in a Guzzi. The Guzzi has a dry clutch, motorcycle oils are designed for engines using a wet clutch.

The Stelvio uses oil to cool the engine, which is why the 10W60 grade is specified. With the emission controls built in it also runs quite hot.

But as I said, your bike, your money.


Brian.

Better 5 minutes late in this world than years early in the next.
Back to Top
TurcoLoco View Drop Down
Falcone
Falcone
Avatar

Joined: 20 Jan 2019
Location: California
Status: Offline
Points: 28
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote TurcoLoco Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11 Jun 2020 at 23:07
I appreciate all for your input.

Now that you confirmed no oil type restrictions I could actually swap this one for the 10w-60 instead.
You all have valid point and I have no experience so no problem taking your input and going with it.

Is there specific brand you have experience that helped bike run cooler (it does seem to run hotter on warmer days)?
If you think this one would work good enough then I will simply swap them thru Amazon.

Thank you all again!

Cheers,
TL

Back to Top
Brian UK View Drop Down
Moderator Group
Moderator Group
Avatar

Joined: 13 May 2014
Location: Surrey
Status: Offline
Points: 13450
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Brian UK Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11 Jun 2020 at 23:19
Any oil of the correct viscosity range and fully synthetic will be fine.
Brian.

Better 5 minutes late in this world than years early in the next.
Back to Top
TurcoLoco View Drop Down
Falcone
Falcone
Avatar

Joined: 20 Jan 2019
Location: California
Status: Offline
Points: 28
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote TurcoLoco Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11 Jun 2020 at 23:30
Much obliged, Brian!

I guess I was a bit overthinking it!
I also placed a post on the oil thread to see what is the preferred oil in my neck of the woods.
Liqui Molly seemed like a good brand, reasonably priced and conveniently available on Amazon.
I will, however, wait for the feedback in the oil thread to make my final decision.

Thank you, sir! Wink

Back to Top
ItieNut View Drop Down
Falcone
Falcone


Joined: 26 Dec 2019
Location: essex
Status: Offline
Points: 83
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote ItieNut Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12 Jun 2020 at 18:36
I have never put motorcycle oil in any bike and never had clutch slip on wet clutches.
But Full synthetic can cause issues with wet clutches.
I put 10w40 semi car oil in my kawasaki ER6, Aprilia Pegaso that I have owned for about 17years and my Honda CB750 & 550 the Guzzi runs on 10w60 fully
Back to Top
Brian UK View Drop Down
Moderator Group
Moderator Group
Avatar

Joined: 13 May 2014
Location: Surrey
Status: Offline
Points: 13450
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote Brian UK Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12 Jun 2020 at 19:34
Don't confuse things by mentioning wet clutches. LOL

The "oilman" is UK based, so unlikely to tell you what is available locally to you the other side of the pond, and a continent.

Brian.

Better 5 minutes late in this world than years early in the next.
Back to Top
TurcoLoco View Drop Down
Falcone
Falcone
Avatar

Joined: 20 Jan 2019
Location: California
Status: Offline
Points: 28
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote TurcoLoco Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 13 Jun 2020 at 00:33
Originally posted by ItieNut ItieNut wrote:

I have never put motorcycle oil in any bike and never had clutch slip on wet clutches.
But Full synthetic can cause issues with wet clutches.
I put 10w40 semi car oil in my kawasaki ER6, Aprilia Pegaso that I have owned for about 17years and my Honda CB750 & 550 the Guzzi runs on 10w60 fully

I never had any problem with full synthetic motorcycle oil in any of the bikes I owned (all Japanese).
Since the price for common grade motorcycle oil is about the same as car oil, I had no reason to try car oil nor was it advisable for wet clutches.

Semi-synthetic seems silly and quite a few mechanic I know say the same thing. I use either mineral oil or full synthetic.

I did, however notice different behavior from the same bike from from different brand oil of same spec.
For example, I wasn't impressed with Motul which I used both in my VStrom and VMax. Bikes didn't seem to be running as strongly and also the oil degraded sooner than usual, shifting got lousy too.

I have used only Schaeffer 9000 oil in my truck during the 15 years I owned it. It was great. Too bad they do not have the correct spec otherwise I would probably use that in my Stelvio too.


Originally posted by Brian UK Brian UK wrote:

Don't confuse things by mentioning wet clutches. LOL

The "oilman" is UK based, so unlikely to tell you what is available locally to you the other side of the pond, and a continent.

Thanks. Yeah. I noticed he was. Still, I didn't mind visiting their site and also reading thru the thread to learn a bit.

I swapped the Liqui Molly 10w-50 for the 10w-60. I will report back after changing the oil and riding a while.

Cheers,
Matt

Back to Top
TooJuicy View Drop Down
Senior Member
Senior Member


Joined: 06 May 2015
Location: Guildford, Surr
Status: Offline
Points: 625
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote TooJuicy Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 13 Jun 2020 at 17:13
It is advantageous to stick with an oil developed for a motorcycle engine.

It is true that m/c oils are designed to complement wet clutches, an unnecessary feature on the Guzzi.  However m/c oils are developed to operate in more stressful environment than car oils - specifically engines that rev higher in normal operation and subject to more heat.  Car engine oils are optimised to deliver better fuel consumption in cooler lower revving environment s.   In a m/c engine one can expect the viscosity of car oil to break down much more quickly.

As Brian says, your engine, your choice. I can't say I've encountered many engines worn out through poor oil choice but it would be safer to drive modestly with car oil in a motorcycle engine.

Tony
Back to Top
red leader one View Drop Down
Senior Member
Senior Member
Avatar

Joined: 07 Oct 2014
Location: Cullercoats
Status: Offline
Points: 3962
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote red leader one Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 13 Jun 2020 at 17:41
As a non engineering type I struggle to understand why anyone would contemplate using car oil in another engine(motorcycle) that it wasn't designed for.
Manufacturers don't spend millions on design because they like the sound of the word
Back to Top
ItieNut View Drop Down
Falcone
Falcone


Joined: 26 Dec 2019
Location: essex
Status: Offline
Points: 83
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote ItieNut Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 13 Jun 2020 at 20:04
As long as it is the right spec it will be fine.
My dads Hinkley Triumph Trophy did over 100000 miles on car oils and still reached 150mph.
My Aprilia 650 single is known for over heating issues mine is fine and done almost 57000km
It is used as a work horse and ridden flatout everywere.



Back to Top
 Post Reply Post Reply Page  12>
  Share Topic   

Forum Jump Forum Permissions View Drop Down

Forum Software by Web Wiz Forums® version 12.03
Copyright ©2001-2019 Web Wiz Ltd.

This page was generated in 0.078 seconds.