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Ian T View Drop Down
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    Posted: 10 Feb 2020 at 10:33
Hi everyone

I have been putting this off as it fills me with dread but that time has come. I initially asked about making a harness on both forums so I have been reading and reading and trying to understand it all, so I have again posted on both with this summary and a few questions I still don't understand, it is an amalgamation of all the helpfull advice I received. I won't quote all the bits or names because I usually muck up the quote bit !!! but all is there. If you could please just check over and suggest where I am not sure, that would be wonderful. 

Relays:
Headlight supply
Main/Dip switch
Horn
Have I missed any off?

I am not sure which to buy, it has been suggested a simple on/off Relay and at 40amps all round so they are interchangeable. From the pictures posted I can see that the ones used are marked with posts numbered 30-85-86-87. Can anyone please just identify these from Vehicle Wiring Products or another suitable supplier, I just don't want to get the wrong ones. 

Multi Connectors:
From the VWP catalogue I can see two types, is there a general preference to one sort or the other?  They are-

Multi Connector 6.3mm
Mate-N-Lok 

With regards to the spade male and female connectors, I am going for uninsulated and putting heat shrink one, but one kind person suggested using slide on insulation, my question is would you use slide on only or slide on then heatshrink?

Lastly cable sizes. Thanks for or the advice but trying to distill it all down I am still a little confused, my questions are:

16.5amp for all the cables except for the following-

3 cables from the alternator
Started motor feed
Mains from battery to ignition switch then to fuse box
Output wires from rectifier back to battery
Headlight cable

Should these be 25 amp or 33amp

Have I missed anything obvious here. Sorry to labour it but I am a toes virgin where the electricals are concerned 

Cheers

Ian




Edited by Ian T - 10 Feb 2020 at 11:30
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Ken-Guzzibear View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Ken-Guzzibear Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10 Feb 2020 at 11:00
The 12/15/3 way plugs are mate n lock
Relays best place to get the modern ones look up"Pyro Dan" in the usa these are as fitted to the newer V11 Le Mans are better than the oem Seimens ones and quick delivery
You missed the start relay out
For real help advice and the correct parts contact Towzatronics Nottingham he has re wired a fair few Guzzis When I looked at pricing all the coloured wiring, Connectors, relays, sockets for relays, fuse box and fuses, headlamp reflector rear lights refurbishing charge and start system ....it actually, due to buying small quantities and such made economic sense to have Towza rewire my V1000 as it is a 76 bike and the oem wires were well past sell by date all the copper had gone black the insulation had gone brittle ....i had modern switchgear added, the newer bikes use Yamaha switch gear by the way 
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Ian T View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Ian T Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10 Feb 2020 at 11:39
Thanks Ken

Much appreciated. Yup agree it probably would work out cheaper if I got some clever dude to do it but I have to do this one myself, warts and all or I will never learn. Always shied away from electrics, so now is the time I think. 

Appreciate your thoughts and thanks

Ian
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Brian UK View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Brian UK Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10 Feb 2020 at 13:13
Relays, this type, plus the sockets.

Simple, reliable and easily replacable.
For the headlight, the simple way is to put one relay in each feed, main and dip and power them from the dip switch feed. Then you use this same relay.
You can use a change over relay plus an energising one, but that is more complicated.

A horn relay if using a high powered horn.
You will also need a start relay to control the current through the starter solenoid.

Regarding wire sizes, basically where high current will be flowing, the bigger the better. It's not the wire heating up you need to worry about, it's the voltage drop over the length.

Regarding the connectors, depends on whether you need to join up with existing ones or you are using new all through. If the latter consider the later waterproof type which will be more reliable in the long term.
Brian.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Brian UK Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10 Feb 2020 at 13:32
One more bit of advice.
Check, check and check again.

Experienced people make mistakes, I know I do and I've only been learning about it for 50 years, so anyone new to it will be vulnerable.
Get a friend to check with you if unsure too.
Brian.

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Ian T View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Ian T Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10 Feb 2020 at 13:41
Thanks Brian

So would it be that relay for everyone and is a start relay for the horn different. Thinking about a nautilus, never had one before. 

So for the higher power wires as outlined, would 33amp be better than 25amp?

Bit confused about the connectors being waterproof do you mean the connecting block with multi pins or the spade connectors something like this


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Chris A View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Chris A Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10 Feb 2020 at 18:59
Those connectors are good but take up a fair amount of space...The nautilus seems good but the one I bought didn't last at all long though simple corrosion in the shed whilst i was rebuilding the bike !...and it takes up lots of space...Best to get one with a seperate compressor  and horn so you can get it all into the few spaces that may be free...or go for a loud 'normal " horn.
As for the rest I think you are on track !
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Brian UK Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10 Feb 2020 at 21:20
I've had a Nautilus on my Norge for many years, no problem with corrosion and the bike is not kept in a very dry place.

Same relay will work for all applications.

Regarding the cable size, it's often a practical compromise, and will depend on what will physically fit in the connectors. Those connectors are used on the modern Guzzi range. Often referred to as Superseal.
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Mike H View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Mike H Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10 Feb 2020 at 21:30
This is going to get terribly confusing spread across two forums. My first reply for tonight is at the Club forum. Big smile




Edited by Mike H - 10 Feb 2020 at 21:39
"Chicken nuggets don't dance on a Tuesday."
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Mike H View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Mike H Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10 Feb 2020 at 21:38
Quote it's often a practical compromise, and will depend on what will physically fit in the connectors

this

This is what I often find. A lot of the time what thickness of wire I can use is dictated by more mechanical restraints. I rewired my LM with the "thinnest" stuff from VWP (not the thinwall insulation stuff, the standard) nothing melted or caught alight.

Also there's the odd case of two wires needing to be joined by crimping together in one connector.

The Superseal connectors can't do that as far as I can see. First time I used one I had to splice in a second wire further back (after baring a bit of insulation) and solder it in, and heatshrink over the top.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Brian UK Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10 Feb 2020 at 22:02
Originally posted by Mike H Mike H wrote:

I rewired my LM with the "thinnest" stuff from VWP (not the thinwall insulation stuff, the standard) nothing melted or caught alight.

Very unlikely it ever would.
But to give an extreme case, if you put a thin wire on a heavy current circuit, the voltage at the end of the wire will be lower, the higher the current, the lower the voltage. On a headlight, a 1 volt drop will reduce light output by something like 15%, so size is important.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Ian T Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11 Feb 2020 at 07:37
Thanks so much guys, I think it is time I grew some, bit the bullet so to speak and got on with it. 

All the information and advice is fantastic and I think I get it now, he says Shocked

For the thicker wires it appears the unanswerable question, with so many variable so I will order some in 25 and some in 33 and see what I can get to fit as I sorta understand it all a bit more now. 

I have one final question and it is to do with relays. 

I presume you can just put female spade connectors on the wire ends and pop them onto the relay terminals but I again presume they would look poo and flap about a bit. 

I have looked up the relay sockets and is it better to use them wired in and then push the relay into them. 

So if using the sockets would you place them all together somewhere on the bike securely and wire directly to them. Hope that makes sense. 

Cheers

Ian
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Brian UK Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11 Feb 2020 at 08:04
I think the sockets sold by VWP are interlocking, so you have them as a row. That would then be as originally fitted by Guzzi on many models.
You don't want the relays just flapping around, won't do then much good.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Ian T Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11 Feb 2020 at 09:04
Thanks Brian
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Ken-Guzzibear Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11 Feb 2020 at 12:12
When my 76 bike was re wired Towza used micro blades and the fuses and relay sockets fitted nicely across rear of the battery where some bikes had a space for tools using pyro dans mini relays these are higher rated than the oem Guzzi  ones are 5 bladed so can be used and no need to do as Guzzi did ...break off one tang, daft really The advantages are 1 the relays are fixed 2) if one fails they can be swapped, the system he used left spare fuse and spare relay ....the relay likely to "fail" is the start relay, Dans are rated way higher than most others been using them for at least 7 yrs no issues 

To make a loom i would measure everything, twice , take loads of pictures take off the old loom lay it on some ply board, mark where everything is then note anything you wish to move The old school way would then be to put pins in the board so you can keep wiring in place ... lay out wiring, using old loom as a base template, add the practical stuff as you go, like heated grips, a socket for maybe sat nav or usb for phone added spotlights or  led marker lights front and maybe rear all that kind of stuff .....On mine modern thinsulate cable was used ...kinda looks weird especially in alternator as it looks way thinner than old stuff BUT it has the advantage of being way easier to solder into the tiny pins of the mate n lock. My V1000 does a fair few miles often touring 2 up with 5 person tent and all the trimmings, this job has been done about 5 yrs now no issues whatsoever ...... i had the regulator upgraded to a solid state variable one it fits to oem bracket and oem plug, left diode board as they are fantastic .... 
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