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what to look for in a v7

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Jerry atric View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Jerry atric Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 27 Oct 2018 at 20:29
Ha ha. No its not a loop, definitely the new one. I don't know where I got the idea that they were carburettor engines, sorry about that. Because I usually turn up to runs on a Guzzi, the blokes at my local VMCC section seem to think I am some kind of authority on them. There is a lot of interest in the V7s as they have trad. design / look, are fairly small and light and with a lot more character than the competition. Of course, I do all I can to encourage this. Unfortunately the people at the Swindon dealers are much more keen of promoting Triumphs, which they also sell.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote jefrs Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 27 Oct 2018 at 23:05
Originally posted by V7Chris V7Chris wrote:

You are right about the power characteristics of the mkiii compared to the mkii. Having ridden a mkiii, it just doesn't feel as 'punchy' as the mkii with a softer power and torque curve. It is a noticeable difference. They have sorted the fuelling on the Mkiii though to provide a smoother low rpm response to throttle input. After trying many fixes, disconnecting the lambdas worked with my mkii, but note this only works with the mkii, the others have different fuelling and don't seen to require it. 
Only the mkiii Stone and some of the kits based on it lose the tachometer. The mkiii special retains the twin clocks.

It is only my opinion, but the mkii is the best looking. Other minor differences between the classic, mkii and mkiii exist such as footrest position, ABS & 6 speed box (mkii on) seat height etc. They all seem to be well regarded by owners (plastic fuel tanks aside on earlier models) so you pays your money and you takes your choice.
 

I did disconnect the Lambdas but made little difference until I also cleared the tables. Then I reconnected the Lambdas and that made no change. Therefore clearing the tables does it not disconnecting the Lambdas. The tables cleared are for hot and cold engine aka "10 x 10 self-adaptive matrix"

From "MUI G3 Injection"

3. Operating logic
New self-adaptive engine management (air/fuel ratio) strategy
The G3 unit used with this engine features a self-adaptive engine management function.
This allows the ECU to adapt to the effective needs of the engine, and even compensate for engine deteriorating factors such as, for instance, fouling of the air filter or throttle body.
To do this, the ECU uses feedback from the oxygen sensors or the MAP sensor in relation to the effective operating conditions. In the latter instance, the effective absolute manifold pressure is used to calculate the effective mass of air aspirated into the cylinder.
The correction factor is calculated and applied by compiling and continuously updating two 10x10 self-adaptive matrices, with one for cold engine conditions and the other for hot engine conditions.
At each reference point (rpm – throttle aperture), the injection time is increased or reduced by a percentage equal to the value of the corresponding correction parameter.
The diagnostic tool may be used to read the ADAPTIVE FUEL CORRECTION parameter, which is expressed as a percentage of the base map injection time. 

Notes:
1.Oxygen sensor-based correction has priority over MAP sensor-based correction.
2.The correction factor is updated when operating conditions are stable - in other words, when neither the throttle aperture nor the engine speed vary excessively rapidly.
3.If the correction factor requested exceeds ±25%, the EFI warning lamp on the instrument panel is activated, the self-adaptive matrices are reset to zero and the error is memorised in the ECU.

In other words the oxygen sensors (Lambda) are used to populate and update the ECU tables.
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V7Chris View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote V7Chris Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 28 Oct 2018 at 03:14
Yep, if you say so! 
Disconnecting the Lambdas worked for me thanks and it seems one of two others. Had mine from new and the low rpm throttle snatchiness was an issue out of the box - not any more.
I think we are wandering off post a bit now, so I have put in my limited input.


Edited by V7Chris - 28 Oct 2018 at 04:02
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Brian UK View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Brian UK Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 28 Oct 2018 at 08:06
I suspect adding all that detail more likely to put off a member of the VMCCfrom buying a V7.
Brian.

Better 5 minutes late in this world than years early in the next.
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Jerry atric View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Jerry atric Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 28 Oct 2018 at 08:24
I'll never remember it all to tell them!
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote BobV7 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 28 Oct 2018 at 08:30
Some folk just never bought into the KISS principle!LOL
V7 Classic Black and gold is the best colour
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Dave P. Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 28 Oct 2018 at 21:46
Originally posted by red leader one red leader one wrote:

Think of the V7 in waves.
 
The old and the new.

This is the new MK1


Anyone got a pic of the old one.




Did you mean as old as this one RLO ?
It's a very large bike.If you look closely you'll see a little man walking along the saddle.

Edited by Dave P. - 28 Oct 2018 at 21:49
TO LIVE OUTSIDE THE LAW YOU MUST BE HONEST.

1971 V7 Special. 1972 850GT.
1970 T120 Bonnie. 2009 500 Bullet.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote kateguy Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 29 Oct 2018 at 07:46
LOL
Moto Guzzi Club GB.....
850 LE MANS...1 & 2....V7 Loop Frame..V7 Sport replica...Guzzi Daytona...Ducati 900ss Bevel not belt.....Laverda 3C ....and an MZ...
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Andyb Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 29 Oct 2018 at 08:05
Actually I think he is cycling  - but there is another standing on the tank......Could be in the Isle of Man as I think they have little people, but the mountains look a bit steep!
Andyb
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Brian UK Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 29 Oct 2018 at 08:07
Originally posted by Andyb Andyb wrote:

......is the photo taken in the Isle of Man as I think they have little people?
Andyb

I thought they all had three legs there.

Not only is the bike enormous, but what size must the rider be? Those gloves are giant size.
Brian.

Better 5 minutes late in this world than years early in the next.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Jerry atric Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 29 Oct 2018 at 08:29
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote jefrs Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 29 Oct 2018 at 10:57
Originally posted by V7Chris V7Chris wrote:

Yep, if you say so! 
Disconnecting the Lambdas worked for me thanks and it seems one of two others. Had mine from new and the low rpm throttle snatchiness was an issue out of the box - not any more.
I think we are wandering off post a bit now, so I have put in my limited input.


Disconnecting the Lambdas can be right for the wrong reason. With the Lambdas disconnected it has to run on the two map tables utilising the MAF sensor alone.

But the map tables can become populated with false or 'outlier' data. And this appears to be the root of the problem. The tables are 'self-adaptive matrices' i.e. they learn, and they can learn bad habits.

Clearing the tables is easy by just rebooting the ECU, by pulling the main 30A fuse and replacing it.  Allow about 20 seconds to shut down fully. Or by disconnecting the battery, but the fuse is a doddle, certainly easier than pulling the connectors on the Lambdas.

The full article is here - https://doc-0g-7k-docs.googleusercontent.com/docs/securesc/ha0ro937gcuc7l7deffksulhg5h7mbp1/pq5onlqbd54j1v1ichfltvnnue7d5qi9/1540807200000/04675650327570876835/*/0B07c0PNWc0TiSk1pTFZEdmNtSUk


There is a lot there but the diagram on p.12 does show a dip in the fuelling at about 20-25% throttle, which may account for the flat spot where the Lambdas should be pulling the AFR up a little richer; see table p.14.
It may seem complicated but the simplest solution is reboot the ECU.

The low rpm snatch seems to be common to most electronic injector systems but the MIU-G3 is unique to Guzzi, or at least Piaggio. On some a bypass screw on the throttle body can dial it out but the Guzzi lacks that
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote BobV7 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 29 Oct 2018 at 11:54
Isn't the price of sprouts outrageous!Tongue
V7 Classic Black and gold is the best colour
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote V7Chris Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 29 Oct 2018 at 12:35
And with Christmas on the horizon as well! 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Andyb Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 29 Oct 2018 at 13:56
I have a feeling the the ECU on the early 1TB models does not ‘learn’ -  my experience of removing the lambdas on my 2014 Stone agrees exactly with what V7Chris wrote.
Andyb
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