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Wet spark plug - 1000SP

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Jalfrezi View Drop Down
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    Posted: 29 Jan 2019 at 17:30
I seem to have been plagued with starting issues on my 1000SP.  Slow cranking fixed by recon'd starter & new battery. 

I also had plug fouling, which appeared to be down to the chokes, I now have new pistons, cables and lever.  This seemed to fix the issue, but I do suspect that the RH choke piston is sticking.

The last day or two, I'm getting misfires, backfires and smoke on startup.  Always the RH cylinder.  Eventually it clears, and runs well when running properly.  I suspected that the choke was sticking on, so swapped out the spark plug expecting to see soot.  However, what I saw was a wet plug.  Not sure of oil or petrol, but I think it's oil.  So it appears I now have another issue, and I'm thinking valve guides or piston rings Cry

Thoughts?
'82 1000SP NT
'04 BMW R1150GSA
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Mike H View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote Mike H Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 29 Jan 2019 at 17:58
Surely if oil it will feel slippery between thumb and finger? Or is there not enough of it to try that?

If petrol, could be the ignition is misfiring on that side. (?)

If burning oil, you should get a bit of black smoke from exhaust.

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Jalfrezi View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Jalfrezi Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 29 Jan 2019 at 18:02
Not really enough to know if it's oil.

Feels like a misfire to me, but oddly seems to clear if I rev the engine for quite some time.  It's most noticeable at low revs.

I'm getting quite a lot of smoke, but I would say it's white or light grey.
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Mike H View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Mike H Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 29 Jan 2019 at 18:12
OK, suspect you might not be noticing the misfire at higher revs only because the flywheel is keeping it going and smoothing it out.

What state are thje HT leads and plug caps in? I used the NGK plug caps which had sealing rubbers to keep out any damp. I typically also sleeved the HT leads in spiralwrap, in case they chafed on anything anywhere.

You could also have a poorly coil, or condenser (is it points ignition?). I've even had points fail and I don't mean the contacts are pitted beyond repair, I mean the plastic heels that ride on the cam also wear away. When they cease to be a straight edge (I mean to say truly parallel to the cam), the points don't open cleanly and the timing can also be all over the shop. Guess how I know. Big smile




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Jalfrezi View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Jalfrezi Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 29 Jan 2019 at 18:22
New NGK plug caps, as one was missing a boot.  Leads looked OK, but will look more closely in daylight, I guess I could have a chafed lead. 

I will also look at swapping the coils if it's easy (suspect it is), and see if the fault swaps sides.

Electronic ignition, so no points.

Thanks Smile
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Ken-Guzzibear View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Ken-Guzzibear Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 29 Jan 2019 at 19:03
when it misses pull the choke cable that side ....could still be choke sticking

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Brian UK Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 29 Jan 2019 at 20:45
Oil or petrol? Leave the plug in a warm place for a short time, petrol will evaporate and dry off, oil won't.
Brian.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Jalfrezi Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 29 Jan 2019 at 21:09
Looking at it again, pretty sure it's petrol.  Will have a look at the leads etc. in the morning.

Thanks all
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Barry Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 30 Jan 2019 at 09:10
Looking at the leads (i.e. for 'chafing' or 'cracking' that leads to shorting) is actually best done in the dark!

That's all I've got. Sorry. When my own 1000SP refuses to start, I choose from my selection of Tourette's impersonations, and walk to the local railway station for a coffee. Then I walk back again, invariably to find that it now starts first time.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Omobono Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07 Feb 2019 at 06:58
I don't know if it's useful, but I have found that my 1000SP does start without the choke in all but the coldest conditions. With the choke (which cannot be regulated like in the SP 2 I have in Germany; it is "on" or "off") I feel there is way too much fuel coming in, and I feel there is a risk of choking the engine; not sure if my example has a badly regulated choke.
Brutal battery, though. Kicks like a mule.
O
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Brian UK Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07 Feb 2019 at 07:55
The Dellorto "choke" is an on/off affair. It's not a choke in that it doesn't restrict the air flow, but it adds extra fuel.
Brian.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote chilly Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07 Feb 2019 at 08:34
Condenser not earthing properly or faulty ?, had that scenario meself, maybe connect a strobe to the plug lead to see if it is misfiring on the pot ?.
Good luck
Chill
 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Ken-Guzzibear Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07 Feb 2019 at 12:29
Just looked at this thread , easy to swap coils as you just swap the LT and HT leads over Elektrikery ignition especially RiTa is heavy on the battery so any crud in a connection or any bad connection in ignition will cause it to stutter 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Dave P. Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07 Feb 2019 at 13:34
Correct me if I'm wrong, but doesn't black smoke indicate richness and grey indicate oil burning?

Edited by Dave P. - 07 Feb 2019 at 13:37
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Jools Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08 Feb 2019 at 10:28
You've mentioned renewing the plug-caps, but not the plugs themselves? Could be that the original plug itself is failing.

The Lucas system on my Trident is/was VERY sensitive to any drop in voltage. Anything less than 11.5 volts and the engine wouldn't run at anything more than a tick-over. In fact the electronic ignition has been the most unreliable part of the bike over the thirty years I've owned it, and was consequently been dumped a few years ago! Three sets of points take a while to set up but are infinitely more forgiving. My G5 does very nicely on points.

Check that you aren't losing any voltage along the way; as has been suggested, tarnished connections, frayed wires etc will all cause voltage drop. Higher RPM will mask failings at low RPM when the alternator takes over from the battery and starts to boost the 'available' voltage.
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