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Water in oil (V7 II)

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V7Chris View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote V7Chris Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 19 Apr 2018 at 21:36
Will do Steve, I have a bit of fettling to do tomorrow anyway.👍
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Dave P. View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Dave P. Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 20 Apr 2018 at 00:01
Cold damp weather & short rides often add up to water in the oil.RE Bullets are renowned for it.The "Mayonnaise" subject has appeared often on the Hitchcock's forum.The only time my bullet is totally mayo-free is when riding in Southern Europe in the summer.
TO LIVE OUTSIDE THE LAW YOU MUST BE HONEST.

1971 V7 Special. 1972 850GT.
1970 T120 Bonnie. 2009 500 Bullet.
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V7Chris View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote V7Chris Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 20 Apr 2018 at 07:28
I have to say that I have never seen any of the dreaded mayo when I dip checked the oil thankfully.
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Brian UK View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Brian UK Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 20 Apr 2018 at 08:14
You're not likely to see it on the dip stick if that's what you mean.
 
Favourite place to find mayo is inside the valve cover.
Brian.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote V7Chris Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 20 Apr 2018 at 23:02
Good call Steve, must have drained about 30 or 40 ml out before it became 'oily'.
Shocked


Edited by V7Chris - 21 Apr 2018 at 22:01
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motopete View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote motopete Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 21 Apr 2018 at 17:05
Originally posted by johnno johnno wrote:

Pete you ride your bike sound , distance and speed wise these small blocks can collect water , my 750 as a few times , your problem is you had a few months of being a wimp and not riding lolThumbs Up

Must be old age creeping up Johnno Wink  When I first had a bike I rode every single day of the year, but you're right - machines don't like standing idle for long periods, all sorts of weird and wonderful faults can develop.

Forgot to mention the rocker covers and oil filter plate were full of mayo too but the breather pipes were clear.
BTW Chris, I've never seen any mayo on the dipstick.
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motopete View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote motopete Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 16 Jun 2018 at 19:28
We can't say the weather's been cold and damp lately can we? And the V7 certainly hasn't been standing idle.  So today I popped the rear sump plug out expecting to find clean oil, but instead a steady stream of clear water came out again... Only 2,000 miles since I last drained it.

The amount I removed was enough to drop the dipstick level from max to min, which probaly explains why the engine doesn't appear to use any oil, the level keeps getting topped-up with water!

Can't decide whether it's condensation dripping from the rocker covers  or moist breather fumes condensing in the airbox then draining back to the sump through the return pipe.

The RHS rocker cover had a light coating of mayo but the LHS was clear, but more worrying is when I last had the oil filter out there was thick mayo in there! So the oil pump is sucking up water and circulating a water/oil mix around the engine... All in all it's a pretty crap breather system Thumbs Down

I feel some mods coming on Wink


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johnno View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote johnno Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 16 Jun 2018 at 21:14
interesting ?  I'm checking my small blocks Thumbs Up even in summer
GSXR1100 L ,Moto Guzzi .750xpa,.1100 sport,1100 sport corsa rider
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Brian UK View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Brian UK Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 16 Jun 2018 at 21:40
Interesting, because I don't remember having the same problem with the V50. And generally the small blocks run quite hot.

It was a wet spring though.
Brian.

Better 5 minutes late in this world than years early in the next.
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Mike H View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Mike H Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 16 Jun 2018 at 22:01
This sounds like rain / spray getting into the airbox and thence into the sump. Else that's a HELLUVA lot of condensation. Shocked



"Chicken nuggets don't dance on a Tuesday."
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Andyb Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 17 Jun 2018 at 09:43
just checked my 2014 1TB stone - on the centresatnd overnight but the rear plug still looks the low point - no water.
12NM on the torque wrench for retightening feels very low, but I kept with that - will recheck incase it loosens
Andyb
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Brian UK Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 17 Jun 2018 at 10:09
Don't forget that plug is threaded into cast aluminium, not the strongest material for threads.
Brian.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote motopete Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 17 Jun 2018 at 18:56
Originally posted by Andyb Andyb wrote:

12NM on the torque wrench for retightening feels very low, but I kept with that - will recheck incase it loosens
Andyb
Yep, that's what I thought Andy, but it's never loosened on me (unlike the heatshield screw that's now sitting somewhere along the A303...)

Today I've had various pipes off to check how this thing is plumbed. Together with the Guzzi diagrams  it appears oil seperation is done in the top tube of the frame.
The 2 rocker pipes feed in and 2 pipes come out: One's the oil return to the sump, the other is the breather pipe to the airbox. On the front of the airbox is a foam filter, it has 3 stubs on the inlet side but only 1 is used (the other 2 are blanked off). After the foam filter there's a single hole into the airbox.

Now I've got 2 theories:
1) The oi seperator isn't very good and allows condensation to form in the top tube, this water then runs back to the sump through the oil return pipe.
QUESTION: What sort of oil seperator do older small blocks use?

2) There's a blockage somewhere in the system preventing the crankcase breathing freely, so moist air gets trapped in the crankcase and condenses every time the engine cools down. Which is a lot of times if you use the bike daily.
QUESTION: Do older small blocks have this foam filter in the path of the crankcase breather?

I'm inclined to think the foam is too restrictive since it's saturated in oil, and therefore stops the crankcase breathing freely. I've blown through the inlet stub on the airbox and it's not totally blocked but it isn't totally clear either.
It's not designed for easy servicing either, to access it you'd have to split the airbox which is no mean feat in-situ.

Inside the airbox was just the usual oily mist, nothing to worry about after 2000-odd miles.

The last engine I had that was this bad for crankcase ventilation was a 1974 Hillman Avenger... That made mayo quicker than Heinz.
Pete.
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Adam View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Adam Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 17 Jun 2018 at 19:11
I've no advice on your problem, but shared the Avenger experience, including finding that they jumped out of gear at critical moments😮
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote motopete Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 17 Jun 2018 at 19:20
Ah, 'happy' memories...  We were doing a treasure hunt (remember those?) and it jammed in 1st, had to drive the 30-odd miles home like that.  Then off to the scrappy for a gearbox that cost (I think) around a tenner.
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