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Water in Bosch starters

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redmunk View Drop Down
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    Posted: 10 Nov 2017 at 08:01
So the starter on my v35 I'm rebuilding wasn't working. Loud clack from the solenoid and the bendix moved, but no rotation and the shaft wouldn't turn by hand...

Took the end can off and it wouldn't budge. Ended up whacking it with a rubber mallet and if shifted eventually, two of us pulling the thing apart! Rotor was seized to the stator, and the brush gear is just a massive clump of rust. Looks like it got a lot of water inside at some point, anyone had this before? Bought a Chinese permanent mag starter on EBay, don't think Gutsibits would take this one for a core exchange!



Edited by redmunk - 10 Nov 2017 at 20:08
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Brian UK View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Brian UK Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10 Nov 2017 at 10:07
Looks like that's been immersed in water at some time. They don't get like that from being left out in the rain.
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Mike H View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Mike H Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11 Nov 2017 at 19:45
That is seriously FUBAR'd

Shocked ..!

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote redmunk Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11 Nov 2017 at 22:05
Yep! Shame as the rest of the starter is in really good condition, no noticeable wear on the pinion, bendix or solenoid actuating arm.

Field and rotor windings metered as good, and it all cleaned up reasonably well apart from the brush gear. Not even any pitting on the commutator, and the bearings are good! Looking at eBay, some other Bosch motors have very similar looking brush gear so I've ordered one to see if it I can make it fit... Will use the Chinese one in the meantime though.

Although, more concerning, the pinion and bellhousing has a slight smell of gear oil so it looks like the front gearbox oil seal is weeping.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Brian UK Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11 Nov 2017 at 23:06
You can get spares for the Bosch motors, so you might well be able to get a new brush plate.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Ken-Guzzibear Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12 Nov 2017 at 09:36
New replacement starters are on e-bay Tim Hicks bought one under £100 it may sound a lot BUT I had a starter refurbished and it was £75 ....
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Gianni Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12 Nov 2017 at 13:19
Hi Redmunk, I see you are in London...
 
Try Sahib's Auto Electric at 3 Norbreck Parade, London NW10 7HR (http://www.sahibs.com/)
 
A few years ago he refurbished a Guzzi starter for me for a very reasonable amount (<£50 IIRC) and he has done work for other Guzzisti I know.
 
If you try him, let us know how you get on.
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redmunk View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote redmunk Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12 Nov 2017 at 13:23
Bought one of these. Seem to have good comments on forums, and it's compatible with the same part number apparently. Anyone else used them?

Called Gutsibits and they wouldn't take it as a core exchange which I sort of expected...


Thanks Gianni, I'll give him a go if the new brush plate doesn't fit!
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Brian UK Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12 Nov 2017 at 21:15
Brian.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote iansoady Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 13 Nov 2017 at 12:11
I've just stripped & rebuilt the Bosch starter motor for my V50 (mostly because I wanted to get rid of the horrible silver paint it was slathered with) and my brush plate didn't look like that one. It seemed to have the brush holders at 90 degree spacing, and the "live" brushes seemed to be soldered into the field windings - although I didn't delve too deep.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Brian UK Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 13 Nov 2017 at 14:11
Very likely there is more than one type, safest way is to ask a Bosch service agent. The number stamped on the motor case will help.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Mike H Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 13 Nov 2017 at 19:01
"Chicken nuggets don't dance on a Tuesday."
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote iansoady Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 14 Nov 2017 at 10:50
Yes, that looks more like mine although I would be hesitant about soldering the "live" brushes inside the body. As I say, I didn't investigate too closely and a bench test of the starter shows it spinning very happily.
Ian
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote redmunk Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 14 Nov 2017 at 15:13
Mine is the later 0001157006 type with the soldered brushes and clock springs rather than coils. There only seems to be a couple different types available like this, so hopefully I've got the right one!

The part numbers of original vs eBay brush holders are only a couple of numbers off, so there's a small chance it'll fit...

When the Chinese starter arrives, I'll strip it down to check for swarf, but mainly out of curiosity to see how the build quality compares.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote iansoady Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 14 Nov 2017 at 16:06
Yes, mine has clock springs rather than the coils in that ebay item. It was a bit of a pain getting the brushes installed till I worked out the best way was to put them all in their housings with the springs then wangle the whole lot over the end of the commutator, lifting the brushes in turn with a little screwdriver.
Ian
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