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Uj and locktight

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chrisshrops View Drop Down
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    Posted: 22 Mar 2018 at 22:37
Hi folks I’m on the big rebuild at the mo,any merit putting locktight between the carrier bearing and the UJ ? Next question the uj is effectively dry ,do you grease it up before you assemble ? Sorry for the basic questions this is my first guzzi build
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote JayDee24ca Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 23 Mar 2018 at 02:14
If you have a good snug fit, (as in a little tighter than a mere friction fit), I would not bother with any dope. Just leave it metal to metal. 
If the ujoint in a bit sloppy, you can lightly dimple the front and rear faces of the inner race of the carrier bearing to try to get a tighter fit. Along with that, some people have had success in using Loctite that is specifically designed for bearing fitting. Regular Loctite is likely to be ineffective, in my thoughts. 
John D. 
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jpc View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote jpc Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 23 Mar 2018 at 07:58
As long as the UJ remains on the swingarm when you pull the latter off the frame you should be fine.

Not sure what JD means by "dimpling" the bearing race, but don't try hitting it with a punch !

Externally greasing the UJ, plaster on a wooden leg as the bearings are sealed, think of driveshaft UJs on 4 x 4s, construction trucks...

Good luck with the rebuild, what model ?

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote cyclobutch Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 23 Mar 2018 at 09:04
On ones that I have found to be loose, I've always cleaned carefully with meths and loctited. No idea if it did any good. I've never found a UJ that was spinning so badly in the carrier bearing inner that it was in any way destructive.

I find that for reassembly I have the best luck putting the UJ up on the g/box output shaft and then offering up the s/arm to it. So I don't like the UJ too tight in that bearing. I'd try practicing that a few times first as dry runs. I consider it a hateful job.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Brian UK Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 23 Mar 2018 at 10:25
Worth trying to get some grease into the U/J if you can.
 
I still have a big Duckhams tin of chain grease, the type you used to melt then drop the chain in. I warm it up and warm the UJ, rotate it to make sure it's covered then leave it to cool. Hopefully the cooling process (air contracting) will pull some grease into the cups.
Brian.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Drumnagorrach Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 23 Mar 2018 at 15:48
Locktite bearing fit will do just what the name implies , I used it quit a bit before I retired from being a maintenance engineer . If the bearing outer isn't an interference fit due to the old one failing and spinning in the housing ,providing the bore is within ,say .5 mm of original and not badly scuffed ,then bearing fit will work fine . there is even a product for dissolving locktite although heating up to just over boiling point does the same .
I found that the rubber boots within the u/j spiders can be gently eased open and grease forced in . On my first T3 I found my u/j s goosed when I took the gearbox of for a clutch change ,I had been given a box of Guzzi bits by an old boy who had sold his bike ,in the box was a u/j ( cardon shaft , two u/j s set at 90 deg to even out cyclic variation ),from the two I built one good one and greased upon assembly worked fine . The bearing housing wasn't tight on that so that was fitted with Loctite .
Incidentally ,a leaking gearbox output seal prolongs the u/j life .
Something that puzzled me is that Beemer R series certainly up to series seven only have one u/j ,are Guzzi's over engineered ?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Drumnagorrach Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 23 Mar 2018 at 15:56
Originally posted by jpc jpc wrote:

As long as the UJ remains on the swingarm when you pull the latter off the frame you should be fine.

Not sure what JD means by "dimpling" the bearing race, but don't try hitting it with a punch !

Externally greasing the UJ, plaster on a wooden leg as the bearings are sealed, think of driveshaft UJs on 4 x 4s, construction trucks...

Good luck with the rebuild, what model ?



Dimpling is carried out by making an even pattern of centre punch marks on the surface of either id or od to raise the surface ,a bit like an impact crater where the displaced materiel from the hole forms a raised rim around it .
sort of thing you did when you cocked up on the lath and bored something oversize .
Very time consuming and impossible on small dia bores .
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote jpc Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 23 Mar 2018 at 16:24
It's what I imagined JD was hinting at, but am I wrong thinking it's a bad idea on hardened, brittle steel such as used for bearing races ?  Risks of cracking...  (?)

And didn't BMW go straight from "flexiblocks" on singles to double-jointed  UJs ?


Edited by jpc - 23 Mar 2018 at 16:52
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iansoady View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote iansoady Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 23 Mar 2018 at 17:11
You can't dimple or knurl (the other bodge) hardened steel.

I'd use Loctite but not one of the extreme ones as they can be impossible to part again.....
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote jpc Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 23 Mar 2018 at 17:20
Originally posted by iansoady iansoady wrote:

You can't dimple or knurl (the other bodge) hardened steel.

Thanks, just making sure ... Smile
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chrisshrops View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote chrisshrops Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 23 Mar 2018 at 18:55
Cheers Chaps
It was a nice firm fit so I have just put it together. The uj spins in the bearing so hopefully it will be grand .
It’s my mk v lemans build the Engine and gearbox are done ,the frame has been powder coated so I will crack on
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Mike H Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 23 Mar 2018 at 21:28
The support bearing to UJ interface always works loose. Consider, it has to be hammered in when new.

A loose one can be replaced with locktite, but will come loose again.

Proper fix is new bearing and new UJ.

HTH

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chrisshrops View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote chrisshrops Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 24 Mar 2018 at 12:45
Hi Mike 
 Thanks for that , they are both new and seem a nice tight fit so fingers crossed 
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