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1200 Sport - tank leaking

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guzzigraham View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote guzzigraham Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Topic: 1200 Sport - tank leaking
    Posted: 05 Jan 2019 at 14:19
Been chasing a minor fuel leak on my V1200 Sport in the shed this morning. Thought the infamous sticking fuel connector was the cause but after a careful look there is a hairline vertical crack at the back of the tank just above where the moulding is for the rear bolt hole. I suppose the good news is that the fuel pump cover is at the back around here so I should be able to get to the inside surface.  Anyone else come across this and / have some advice on how to seal it ?  
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Brian UK View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Brian UK Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05 Jan 2019 at 17:41
Well firstly you will have to drain the tank and dry it to get all the fuel vapour out of the crack.

Not sure what plastic the tank is made from though.

Had your tank expanded making lining up of that rear bolt extremely difficult? Trying to think of another reason for the crack.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Ken-Guzzibear Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05 Jan 2019 at 20:29
Frosts do a tank repair kit
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Brian UK Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05 Jan 2019 at 20:47
This might give some useful information. http://www.hendersons.co.uk/mailer1.html

Don't know if the tank material is marked on the tank, such as ABS, PP etc. Makes a lot of difference. What will mend completely one type of plastic won't touch another.


Edited by Brian UK - 05 Jan 2019 at 20:50
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Brian UK Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05 Jan 2019 at 20:52
The Frost kits seem to be for metal tanks.
Indeed, on checking they say not suitable for plastic tanks.


Ideally you need something which will weld into the existing material, not just stick to the surface.

Hendersons are the specialists though no doubt others also exist.

You can get plastic repair putty (Quik Steel etc.), but that may or may not give a permanent repair.

Loctite also do one.


Edited by Brian UK - 05 Jan 2019 at 20:59
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Griffic Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05 Jan 2019 at 22:55
Sorry to hear of your problem. My 2008 reg sport is showing signs of several paint  blisters and some distortion that I assume are due to the effects of ethanol and I sometimes wonder what it’s life expectancy is. 
Repair might be the best option for your tank, but I would wonder if the tank material has deteriorated or deformed enough to cause cracking, if a new tank would be a better option. 
There are a couple of new unpainted tanks on eBay from Italian sellers at the moment. One is around £150 inc delivery but appears to have some light surface damage and the other is over £300 but it’s difficult to see the condition as it’s been photographed whilst covered in plastic wrapping ! 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Brian UK Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06 Jan 2019 at 08:03
Assuming you do go along the repair route, the next thing I would do before refitting the tank would be to elongate the hole in the rear, file it towards the tank, to relieve the strain which has almost certainly caused the cracking.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote guzzigraham Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06 Jan 2019 at 11:49
Thanks for the replies folks. Definitely going for the repair route to start with. Hopefully it will work out. Will get to the back of the crack by taking off the fuel pump. May be able to see more and intend to fix from the inside if I can get the right material  I can change out the half plastic filter whilst I’m at it as I have an all metal one to put in there and save the headache of it going ping when I’m out and about. 

Wish me luck
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Brian UK Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06 Jan 2019 at 14:58
I certainly wish you luck, and let us know how you get on.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote guzzigraham Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11 Feb 2019 at 13:50
Hi folks - been away working so not much overall change, but I did a lot of research just before I went away on plastic repair, plastic bike tanks and materials for gluing, plastic welding or just whether good old melting would work. So what did I find:

- It's key to work out what your plastic is so you can work out a repair material and method

- Plastic bike tanks are often ABS or polyethylene both of which can be repaired with the right material. I've got a chemistry background so was feeling confident we would have a repair nailed once I found out more.

- Taking the tank off would (you'd expect) reveal enough information to identify the tank material - there are internationally accepted abbreviations and formats to id plastic materials - usually associated with recycling but would help me research a repair better too

- V1200 Sport tanks don't have any such codes... they do have a manufacturer name (Acerbis) and a code which relates to the mould number so they can id the tank shape.

- Acerbis were contacted both directly through their Italian website and via the UK agent / supplier based in Luton. The answer came back from the UK side (still waiting for the Italian website to respond).

- So... V1200 tanks (and probably all Brevas and Norges) are produced by a spinning process where the moulds are rotated whilst injecting with a nylon polymer.

Nylon is not really repairable in any meaningful way. If there was a scuff or other damaged you can plastic pad it and hope for the best, but a stress crack is not going to stay repaired for long - even if I were to elongate the hole and remove / reduce stress. No material would stay adhered and petrol proof for long.

As an aside, when I took the fuel pump out to inspect things more closely I discovered that I was not the first to try and tackle this. Someone had bodged in a scrappy fibreglass repair inside the tank which lasted about 18 months into my ownership. Makes me wonder how much the dealership I bought it from knew when selling it to me. I distinctly remember being told that the previous owner had exclusively had it serviced by them and it had only done around 2,800 miles when I bought it. Hmmm, maybe give them a miss in the future eh?

So my solution has been to source a second hand tank from a breakers in Italy which is on the way as I type. This had a lot of pictures available and appeared to show an intact / blemish-free area around where mine has cracked. They also have a 30 day returns policy so I feel comfortable should there be something not immediately apparent. I have seen a cost of over £1,800 quoted for a brand new one so happy to have gone down the used route although sadly the paint will not be as immaculate as the original was... despite the crack!

Have enjoyed the bike... but is it time for a change before something similar happens ?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Dave P. Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11 Feb 2019 at 14:34
What was wrong with steel tanks ??? Don't tell me,let me guess.PROGRESS !!
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Brian UK Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11 Feb 2019 at 21:09
So is this nylon polymer impervious to all the nasties in modern fuel?
Why does it expand in use? Why did it crack too?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Scousus maximus Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12 Feb 2019 at 11:14
When I had my Baby Breva and the ethanol fuel distortion thing was a big talking topic, I briefly thought about getting a good fabricator to make a steel, boxy tank and just use the plastic part as cosmetic cladding,,,,,

Thankfully I had no problems anyway and sold it on and it's still going strong.

Not a useful contribution, just a thought.

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John
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Tris Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12 Feb 2019 at 11:30
Here's an interesting thing re chemical compatibility between Nylon and Ethanol

Chemical          Compatibility
Ethanol             A1-Excellent

Explanation of Footnotes
1. Satisfactory to 72°F (22°C)
2. Satisfactory to 120°F (48°C)

Ratings: Chemical Effect
A = Excellent.
B = Good, Minor Effect, slight corrosion or discoloration
C = Fair, Moderate Effect, not recommended for continuous use. Softening, loss of strength, or swelling may occur.
D = Severe Effect, not recommended for ANY use.


Obviously there are some issues above 22 degree C which may explain why our brothers and sisters in warmer climes have issues 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Brian UK Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12 Feb 2019 at 14:37
My Norge tank is somewhat larger than it used to be. And I suspect the original tank in this topic had also grown, which had caused the crack close to the rear mounting due to stress.

But I remember Guzzi did put out a statement saying the Norge, 1200S and big Breva tanks were ethanol proof. They didn't say the same about the little Breva tank.
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