guzziriders.org - moto guzzi forum Homepage
Forum Home Forum Home > Technical > Small Blocks
  New Posts New Posts RSS Feed - Water in oil (V7 II)
  FAQ FAQ  Forum Search   Events   Register Register  Login Login

Water in oil (V7 II)

 Post Reply Post Reply Page  123 4>
Author
Message Reverse Sort Order
Andyb View Drop Down
Senior Member
Senior Member
Avatar

Joined: 02 Jul 2016
Location: Nottinghamshire
Status: Offline
Points: 157
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Andyb Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Topic: Water in oil (V7 II)
    Posted: 08 Nov 2018 at 17:52
The stutter might be air in the fuel line clearing out?

Sounds like you do a lot of miles yet still get this water in oil problem, which is strange.

I don’t know if the plumbing on my 1TB MkI is different to the MkII but I don’t get contaminated oil.

AndyB
Back to Top
Andymac View Drop Down
Guzzino
Guzzino
Avatar

Joined: 24 Jul 2018
Location: Leeds
Status: Offline
Points: 5
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Andymac Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08 Nov 2018 at 00:06
I followed this thread with interest I have had my V7ii for over a year now, it,s done 17800 miles, got it dealer serviced at 10700 miles, at about 12000 miles it threw oil out Gearbox breather, no reason found yet !! I have just checked and adjusted tappets , found rocker covers full of pink Mayo ! drained engine oil about a cup full of water/mayo came out rear sump drain !! removed air filter ,air box had half a cup of water/oil/mayo in it !! cleaned everything up and investigated breather plumbing and as stated in this thread it all runs back to air box via the foam filter at bottom of it, which is almost impossible to get to without taking half bike apart, so cleaned out pipe work as best I could and reassembled it ,with view to fitting breather with catch tank at later date? Also found that TB not actually connected to Air Box ,so must have been drawing in unfiltered air through gap !! so after some levering and jiggleing got the connecting rubber in place might help give smoother running ?? This bit just for any one who dosen't know to disconnect the fuel pipe from tank you have to push the hose toward the coupling as you push it off ,which means you have to have a hand in each end of tank tunnel and work blind (a lot of fun !!!!!) SO time to fire it up, pressed starter , fuel pump whined engine started let it tick over to get new oil round ,then giving it a bit more gas and held it at 3000revs and it gave a bit of a stutter then picked up again let go back to idle then back to 3 grand it did it again so switched of and restarted and problem seems to have cleared ( has the ECU readjusted its self due to intake difference ???? ) So that is my tale of a simple service ! I seem to have encountered most of the issues in this thread ,which was of great assistance . Any more thoughts on these issues would be most welcome , sorry about length of post!!
Optimism is a terrible Affliction
Back to Top
motopete View Drop Down
Senior Member
Senior Member
Avatar

Joined: 18 Aug 2015
Location: Notts
Status: Offline
Points: 359
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote motopete Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01 Oct 2018 at 20:09
Tried that, doesn't work! Big smile
Back to Top
rapheal View Drop Down
Senior Member
Senior Member


Joined: 13 Nov 2014
Location: west country
Status: Offline
Points: 347
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote rapheal Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 30 Sep 2018 at 11:42
ride it like you stole it !!
Back to Top
Andyb View Drop Down
Senior Member
Senior Member
Avatar

Joined: 02 Jul 2016
Location: Nottinghamshire
Status: Offline
Points: 157
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Andyb Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 30 Sep 2018 at 09:43
Could be the warm dry weather has helped?
Will be interesting to know if your oil stays dry longer term - mine was when I checked it and I am using ENI 10/60
Andyb
Back to Top
V7Chris View Drop Down
Senior Member
Senior Member


Joined: 13 May 2017
Location: Shropshire
Status: Offline
Points: 1073
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote V7Chris Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 30 Sep 2018 at 07:33
I did an oil and filter change a few weeks ago using the recommended ENI oil. This replaced the red stuff that the dealer had used at the second annual service. Previously, I too had the water dribble from the rear sump plug. Since the oil change, I haven't had an opportunity to do so many longer runs on the V7ii (running In another machine, s o a few 10 mile trips to keep everything running and one longer run). Carrying out a few checks in preparation for today's DGR at Chester, yesterday I cracked open the sump plug expecting to get the usual dribble of water. Not a drop. Just thick golden oil. 
Could this be partly the oil used I wonder?
Chris
Back to Top
jefrs View Drop Down
Senior Member
Senior Member
Avatar

Joined: 12 Aug 2018
Location: West Berkshire
Status: Offline
Points: 278
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote jefrs Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 27 Aug 2018 at 23:25
I used to marshal trials. They seemed to spend more time immersed in the water than out of it. I remember one competitor come up saying, "I've lost my bike", he'd dropped it in a pond and couldn't find it.
Back to Top
Adam View Drop Down
Senior Member
Senior Member
Avatar

Joined: 19 Jul 2017
Location: UK
Status: Offline
Points: 125
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Adam Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 27 Aug 2018 at 18:42
My trials bike gearbox oil can turn milky grey with condensation within one day if there's streams on the course. Especially in winter with a hot engine being plunged into icey water, I'm surprised it doesn't shatter. 
Back to Top
jefrs View Drop Down
Senior Member
Senior Member
Avatar

Joined: 12 Aug 2018
Location: West Berkshire
Status: Offline
Points: 278
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote jefrs Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 27 Aug 2018 at 11:29
Originally posted by Dave P. Dave P. wrote:

Cold damp weather & short rides often add up to water in the oil.RE Bullets are renowned for it.The "Mayonnaise" subject has appeared often on the Hitchcock's forum.The only time my bullet is totally mayo-free is when riding in Southern Europe in the summer.
  

The Enfield EFI engine has a peculiar system of weirs and dams inside the engine and a very high pump rate of oil. It has an oil catch pot and return inside the engine case so the breather is just a pipe to the airbox.  The older Enfield engines are more prone to breather problems and can have some real Heath Robinson solutions.

This is perhaps not the place to discuss the Enfield predilection for making mayonnaise but it has been done to death on the REOC/Hitchcocks forum, and may shed some light on the italian mayo.

The main source of water in the engine is as water vapour drawn in through the breather with air. Air has to go in and out otherwise we'd get a vacuum inside the case.
The breather must be allowed to eject water vapour, trapping it and draining it back into the engine as liquid is not a good plan.
Detergents in the oil will trap and emulsify water, that is its job and difficult to boil out once it has formed; this is the mayonnaise.
The oil must be allowed to get hot enough to vaporise water condensation. The V7.ii has a pair of 75kW knee warmers to adequately do the job even in the coldest weather. The engine produces about 50hp as mechanical work but wastes the rest, about 80%, as heat, 150kW waste as heat. That's a lot of heat, kitchen ovens run to about 5kW.
So running the bike up at idle 'in winter' is not a good idea, it needs a good run.

I ride the bikes all year, true not as much in winter, but I don't get mayo. We often get very good riding days in winter, bright and sunny if a bit nippy.
Back to Top
motopete View Drop Down
Senior Member
Senior Member
Avatar

Joined: 18 Aug 2015
Location: Notts
Status: Offline
Points: 359
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote motopete Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 24 Aug 2018 at 17:02
Doh!  Funny how typo's can stare you in the face...Clown

Getting a photo on the bike's a bit tricky but I've attached a pic of my "collector tube" gadget (nothing more than standard plumbing fittings, sprayed black).

The contraption is (for now) tie wrapped to the LHS lower frame rail under the starter.
The oil separator pipe feeds into 'INLET'.
The one-way valve is still connected to the sump, but it's plugged to prevent any leak back.

Nothing comes out the 'VENT' port, so I assume the oil separator is vented OK by the airbox breather. Certainly the airbox breather inlet seems clear if I blow though it.

 I undo the drain every week or 2, usually collecting a dribble of water or water/oil emulsion.
If my sump level's at max it does collect a bit more oil, but that stops once the sump's down to about 3/4 max (where I normally run it).




HTH, Pete
Back to Top
Brian UK View Drop Down
Moderator Group
Moderator Group
Avatar

Joined: 13 May 2014
Location: Surrey
Status: Offline
Points: 9408
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Brian UK Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 24 Aug 2018 at 10:09
It's fairly clear that the oil separator in the frame tube doen't get hot enough to stop the water vapour  condensing, so it can end up in the sump.

The older V50 etc. used a plastic separator which was part of the air box, so probably didn't work as a condensor.
Brian.

Better 5 minutes late in this world than years early in the next.
Back to Top
V7Chris View Drop Down
Senior Member
Senior Member


Joined: 13 May 2017
Location: Shropshire
Status: Offline
Points: 1073
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote V7Chris Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 24 Aug 2018 at 07:42
Originally posted by oldlegs oldlegs wrote:

With not a trace of oil in the sump? only kidding we know what you mean.
Have you blocked the other end where the return pipe used to fit. Any chance of a pic. Steve.

+1 pleaseSmile
Back to Top
oldlegs View Drop Down
Senior Member
Senior Member


Joined: 12 Sep 2015
Location: south yorkshire
Status: Offline
Points: 200
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote oldlegs Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 23 Aug 2018 at 22:28
With not a trace of oil in the sump? only kidding we know what you mean.
Have you blocked the other end where the return pipe used to fit. Any chance of a pic. Steve.

Current: Beta Motard M4. Beta Motard tourer. Beta Super Motard. Beta Alp. Moto Guzzi V7 11 Stone.
Back to Top
motopete View Drop Down
Senior Member
Senior Member
Avatar

Joined: 18 Aug 2015
Location: Notts
Status: Offline
Points: 359
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote motopete Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 23 Aug 2018 at 19:37
Thought I'd share an update on my nice clean oil, with not a trace of oil in the sump after 2 months continuous riding Smile

 I've disconnected the return pipe from the oil separater and fed it into a catch tube (length of copper tube with a drain at one end). Result Thumbs Up 

The sump's remained squeaky clean, so have the rocker covers. 
The catch tube collects a small amount of water plus a bit of oil each week (more water than oil). Over the last 2 months I've drained around 100cc of water, I know because I've been saving every drop.

Now my engine actually uses some oil - as I'd expect - previously it never seemed to use much oil because the crappy breather system was dumping enough water into the sump to offset the oil burnt by the engine.

Finally, I see the oil return pipe to the sump has been deleted on the V7 III.... I wonder why? Ermm


Back to Top
motopete View Drop Down
Senior Member
Senior Member
Avatar

Joined: 18 Aug 2015
Location: Notts
Status: Offline
Points: 359
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote motopete Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 21 Jun 2018 at 21:43
Googling around Adam I get the impression the problem is far more prevalent on later single TB V7's.  Yours being 2009 will be twin TB I guess.

Not sure how the new V7 III fares?  I know they modified the breather set up compared to V7 II.
Back to Top
 Post Reply Post Reply Page  123 4>
  Share Topic   

Forum Jump Forum Permissions View Drop Down

Forum Software by Web Wiz Forums® version 12.00
Copyright ©2001-2018 Web Wiz Ltd.

This page was generated in 0.047 seconds.