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Single TB 750 AND V7Mk2 e.f.i. Accessory

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Andyb View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Andyb Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Topic: Single TB 750 AND V7Mk2 e.f.i. Accessory
    Posted: 11 Jan 2019 at 20:05
Or just remove the lambda sensors (which put the ECU into closed loop and weaken the mixture below 4000rpm) and the map will go back to how Mr Guzzi probably wrote it before it had to be tweaked to pass E4 rules.
All these gizzmos may do the job, but add complexity and cost.
andyb
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jefrs View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote jefrs Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01 Oct 2018 at 11:16
I should also perhaps say I am not getting decel popping and I am not getting the flat spot on pick-up from idle, both of which are something of a feature of electronic fuel injection.  I do have stock exhaust and silencers.

From some experience with the other bike, it is possible to get better response and fuelling with injectors than with a carburettor. A carb will often give smoother throttle response making it nicer to ride but modern bikes unfortunately have their mapping set to pass emission regulations; but is it possible to dial that out. There are several methods but perhaps the most common is to adjust the map especially at the bottom end.

Which is all a lot of these box of tricks do.

Which is what a Dynojet Power Commander will do in spades but also enable tuning the entire map and ignition, but I am not sure a Power Commander will work on a V7ii, probably not from what I've read. Dynojet do not list a fitment for V7ii
Note (NB) A Power Commander can send your insurance premiums right up, maybe double; not always a good option. And they won't produce highly significant performance improvement, mainly they'll provide a more responsive throttle.


Edited by jefrs - 01 Oct 2018 at 11:25
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote jefrs Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 13 Sep 2018 at 20:29
The ECU does learn in a primitive manner. There are two 10x10 look-up tables from the Lambdas, one for hot the other cold, it applies these to the base map. Disconnecting the battery or the main fuse powers down the system and clears the tables. 
This was suggested on here but is a fairly common trick with car ECU which can also get their shorts in a bunch, for example refuses to idle because it thinks its TPS is at full throttle (afaik the Guzzi ECU only stores data from the Lambdas). What can happen is false data or 'outliers' get stored which offset what it should be doing. The data are cumulative, the system keeps adding to them; the data set can get skewed. It effectively resets the system.  

There should be, because there usually is, some method of resetting or recalibrating the TPS. I don't know what it is on this bike, it varies from one vehicle to the next. Resets the 0% to 100% throttle position, which affects idle. On the other bike it's something like open throttle 100%, switch on and wait for lights to blink then close throttle and wait for another blink then switch off and wait 30 seconds; car is similar too. It's not normally in the manual.


I did disconnect the Lambdas but figured they're supposed to be connected; I get better results using a wide-band O2 on the other bike than without - but with a Power Commander custom map. 

I seem to be getting, and this is subjective, better result with the Lambdas connected but with the tables cleared. But note I have also mopped out oil from the air box, which should not have been in there, and probably contributed to any problem.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote motopete Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 13 Sep 2018 at 17:20
Out of interest, when you say "cleared the tables" what exactly did you do?

AFAIK the ECU doesn't learn, it just reads sensor inputs (engine speed, TPS, intake air temp, cylinder temp, exhaust lambda) to trim the mixture from the base map values.

I assume the base map isn't too far off ideal since some people run with the lambda's disconnected.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote jefrs Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 13 Sep 2018 at 01:42
Bit odd.

I reconnected the Lambdas and cleared the tables again. This worked well, perhaps it had learnt bad habits.

Then I drained the oil out of the air filter box and it worked even better. (I did not put the oil in, recent dealer service).


My bike is an impetuous red but the plug caps are rubbery, and hidden from view Wink
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote TimmyTheHog Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 29 Aug 2018 at 17:18
Originally posted by jefrs jefrs wrote:

Originally posted by TimmyTheHog TimmyTheHog wrote:

Originally posted by deltic deltic wrote:

moto guzzi rubber caps are a weak point

my original cap died on me and caused arcing

I upgraded to XD05F with CPR8EA-9

A lot more solid connection and none to minor wiggles within the head.


The red ones are faster than the black ones? Big smile

Definitely!...in my head anyway :P

at least it looks faster :P My bike is red too....so Beer
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote jefrs Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 29 Aug 2018 at 17:08
Originally posted by TimmyTheHog TimmyTheHog wrote:

Originally posted by deltic deltic wrote:

moto guzzi rubber caps are a weak point

my original cap died on me and caused arcing

I upgraded to XD05F with CPR8EA-9

A lot more solid connection and none to minor wiggles within the head.


The red ones are faster than the black ones? Big smile
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote TimmyTheHog Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 28 Aug 2018 at 23:47
Originally posted by deltic deltic wrote:

moto guzzi rubber caps are a weak point

my original cap died on me and caused arcing

I upgraded to XD05F with CPR8EA-9

A lot more solid connection and none to minor wiggles within the head.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote deltic Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 27 Aug 2018 at 17:35
moto guzzi rubber caps are a weak point
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote jefrs Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 27 Aug 2018 at 14:46
Having written the V7.ii idled well it, of course, decided to die when lifting the throttle when cold and stuttering in slow corners.
So I changed the plugs. The old ones looked good and have only done 5000 miles at most but the new plugs got rid of most of the stuttering. It still needs warming up but doesn't dot out so readily.
New CPR8EB-9 fitted straight out of the box at 0.90mm, stock MG rubber plug caps.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Brian UK Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 24 Aug 2018 at 10:05
Generally when you hit things, especially with the large hammer, it does pay to get one's finger out of the way. Same applies to axes as some will know.

If you had just one lambda sensor then I can send you one made up to fit. I only have one as I made it up to try on the Norge, but it brought up the service light. I gather the V7 range is a little more forgiving.


Brian.

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Mike H View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Mike H Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 24 Aug 2018 at 09:40
LOL


"Chicken nuggets don't dance on a Tuesday."
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote V7Chris Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 24 Aug 2018 at 07:54
Originally posted by Brian UK Brian UK wrote:

A shottky diode in series with the lambda sensor output can also work. They cost pence.
All very well Brian, simple muckaniks like me need to have such things explained in simple terms, e.g.where do I hit it, how hard, do I move my thumb out of the way first, what colour is it etc. With the lambdas sensors, I just left the multiplugs disconnected behind the side panels , protected the exposed end of the plugs and it seems to work fine. Should I be fitting one of these fandangos you mention? If so, where do I get one, what do I connect it to (I can weld after a fashion!), Do I need one for each side, and finally, can you pop round next Tuesday at about 10:30 and put in for me. ThanksBig smile
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote oldlegs Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 23 Aug 2018 at 22:18
If I remember right the lambda connectors are behind the side cover. Steve
Current: Beta Motard M4. Beta Motard tourer. Beta Super Motard. Beta Alp. Moto Guzzi V7 11 Stone.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Brian UK Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 23 Aug 2018 at 14:49
The fat Duc is another "dongle" working on a resistive network which modifies the output of the lambda sensor to make the ECU think it's running lean and thus richens up the mixture.
A shottky diode in series with the lambda sensor output can also work. They cost pence.
Brian.

Better 5 minutes late in this world than years early in the next.
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