Testing Bosch Charge circuit |
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Ken-Guzzibear
Moderator Group Joined: 13 May 2014 Location: Sileby Leics Status: Offline Points: 9454 |
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Posted: 25 Mar 2015 at 08:51 |
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Having a problem with my 39 yr old bike < bloody unreliable innit! I found these tips it may help others
Right note this:- 1) rectifiers rarely fail 2) Stators rarely fail So here are the first things to go for: CHARGE WARNING LIGHT ON REGULATOR CHECK To check the voltage regulator run a jump wire from D+ on Rectifier ( Red wire next to the 3 way block on rectifier right hand side panel just above rear Brake Master cyl) to DF on altenator DISCONNECT EXISTING WIRES this takes out the reg start bike do not exceed 2000 rpm IF light goes out it is the reg at fault (electronic one from Gutsibits circa£25 I am sourcing a solid state variable reg as recommended by Guzziology ) if light stays on Altenator fault. BUT check the earths I added (as per guzziology) an earth from D- on the alternator brush to the alternator casing AND another from the bracket on the Regulator bracket A good test for charge Warning Light (CWL) permanently on is run a jumper from 61 via a 1.2W lamp to batter +ve start the bike if it goes out it's a wiring fault IF the battery is showing 14+V and the lamp dims but is still on it ie either bad earth at reg OR knackered Voltage Reg That is the easiest one. ROTOR CHECK To check the ROTOR disconnect wires with a meter on lowest Ohms setting between slip rings (The two copper rings the brushes contact there ought to be slight resistance 3.5 Ohms then allow brushes to contact and check at the terminals D to DF this ought to read the same IF slip rings have NO resistance the rotor is I believe the technical term is ...buggered... it the resistance is higher at terminals then brushes not contacting (Isolate the brushes simply lift and slide a none conductive material between them and slip ring. I used a cable tie ALTERNATOR CHECK A bit more difficult OK first realise the rectifier is Live on the top side and straight to earth the bottom look behind the Right side panel you will see it top right is a very large spade connector this is B+ To check the Alternator safety first Disconnect the negative terminal on the battery make very sure it cannot flick back and touch the neg terminal. Take off the large spade terminal on the rectifier Attach the positive lead of a voltmeter to this terminal set on 20V DC volts Attach the Negative of the Voltmeter to the D- at alternator Re attach the battery negative Start bike you ought to see 13.5 volts at just a touch above tick over 2000rpm -14.2 to 14.5 volts There are diagrams of the charging circuit that are easy to understand on the Gutsibits site look in The Shed then click Technical and the Bosch charging system is the first scroll down and the diagram is at the bottom of the page very helpful easy to understand I have been looking at this and to be fair the Bosch system is very reliable the only improvement is possibly a solid state regulator, To renew the whole system is £275 compared to £375 for a brushless system I again looked at this and the pro's and cons as far as I see it are: Bosch system IS reliable other than replacing brushes ONCE in 25 yrs nothing else has been replaced According to Guzziology the Rectifier they have never seen a fail, unless batt acid hits the Y terminal or external damage They have hardly ever seen a stator fail...the rotor will fail due to the way it works BUT replacements are £59 or less The Regulator is also a weak point but hey mine has been in there 39 yrs !!! Oh the brushes need replacing every ohhh 10 yrs or so. The brushless does give more power BUT it dumps over charging thro reg rectifier a slightly bad earth it blows, the V11 has had a replacement reg rectifier already and it was under 10 yrs old I think it is a lot extra to pay for a few more amps power and no way as reliable I got the Rectifier checked out But sourced a new one that went in new Brush holder complete from Motorwoks the old BMW AIR HEADS USE THE SAME SYSTEM By the way they do brushes with ring terminals on them for £5 ....I added earths wires and all was good ...NB you may have to excite the rotor To do that a wire on +ve Battery and a flash, literally touch the D+ on brushes will marry and excite the whole system ...... I did loads of research to the whole thing and to be fair the Bosch system is VERY robust it works well this is the very first time I have had a fault in over 25 yrs and loads of miles .....I run extra lights as well as heated grips it shows charge with all of it running including spotlights ...... Edited by Ken-Guzzibear - 28 Mar 2015 at 19:26 |
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The Older i Get, The Better I Was
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Ken-Guzzibear
Moderator Group Joined: 13 May 2014 Location: Sileby Leics Status: Offline Points: 9454 |
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By the way also found out the older Bosch system does NOT work well with AGM or Li batteries due to the fact the reg only charges at 14.2V however add an adjustable solid state reg and open it up to 14.6V which is what the Ducati type charge system goes to on the V11 Le Mans with AGM battery!
Edited by Ken-Guzzibear - 23 May 2015 at 10:43 |
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The Older i Get, The Better I Was
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Mike H
Senior Member Joined: 21 May 2014 Location: East Anglia Status: Offline Points: 8731 |
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Not surprised! It being an old design ~ ergo I avoid those type batteries...
Don't quite understand the bit about disconnecting the large terminal ~ is this to make the bike run without battery connected? Not sure that's necessarily safe... |
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"Chicken nuggets don't dance on a Tuesday."
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Ken-Guzzibear
Moderator Group Joined: 13 May 2014 Location: Sileby Leics Status: Offline Points: 9454 |
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read it again mate dis the battery so you can't short the large red spade on the rectifier connect meter re connect battery fire the bike safety is all
The above is a test cctdiag to eliminate what is often another reason the CWL stays lit nb 2,1.2w bulb is a MUST
Edited by Ken-Guzzibear - 27 Mar 2015 at 21:55 |
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Mike H
Senior Member Joined: 21 May 2014 Location: East Anglia Status: Offline Points: 8731 |
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Ah you've edit-ited it ...
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"Chicken nuggets don't dance on a Tuesday."
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Ken-Guzzibear
Moderator Group Joined: 13 May 2014 Location: Sileby Leics Status: Offline Points: 9454 |
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That was not the bit I edited ...BUT I have checked and it seems the eejit light is a 1.2Watt NOT 2.2 ...the brain is going a bit
Edited by Ken-Guzzibear - 27 Mar 2015 at 21:54 |
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Ken-Guzzibear
Moderator Group Joined: 13 May 2014 Location: Sileby Leics Status: Offline Points: 9454 |
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Worth looking at this for charging issues
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The Older i Get, The Better I Was
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iceni
Senior Member Joined: 16 Sep 2014 Location: Colchester Status: Offline Points: 2480 |
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One thing that throws me about electrickery is the size of the cables (conductors)? Which should be used for the various parts of the loom. For example, what size cable should be used for the starter mod?
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italianmotor
Senior Member Joined: 14 May 2014 Location: UK Status: Offline Points: 2101 |
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I think not too thin...but not too thick either.
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Guzzi lover doing my own thing: http://www.italianmotormagazine.com
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iceni
Senior Member Joined: 16 Sep 2014 Location: Colchester Status: Offline Points: 2480 |
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Great - I've got loads of bits of wire like that, but some are not long enough, and some are too short |
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Ianboydsnr
Senior Member Joined: 14 May 2014 Location: Cumbria Status: Offline Points: 831 |
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And they are no good if you let the smoke out |
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Brian UK
Moderator Group Joined: 13 May 2014 Location: Surrey Status: Offline Points: 17637 |
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I'll bet, like me, you have loads of nails with the heads on the wrong end too.
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Brian.
Better 5 minutes late in this world than years early in the next. |
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Ken-Guzzibear
Moderator Group Joined: 13 May 2014 Location: Sileby Leics Status: Offline Points: 9454 |
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Modern thinsulate cable will take more amps than the older stuff .... look at the existing cable/wire measure the diameter look it up on say Vehicle Wiring Products website that will give you the rating for that wire, look then at the equivalent for "thinsulate" it is way thinner ....
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The Older i Get, The Better I Was
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DrD
Senior Member Joined: 15 May 2016 Location: England Status: Offline Points: 162 |
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I have done this check and all seems well on the 1980 LM-II. Original stator/rotor/regulator and rectifier. LED idiot lights in modified console (ok too when checked in workshop).
However a little blast around the back roads sees the charge light come on at about 4500-to-5000 rpm. Other than the bike trying to shake its wiring loose (I will check tomorrow) is there any thing else I could check |
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Le Mans thing (plus other stuff)
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Ken-Guzzibear
Moderator Group Joined: 13 May 2014 Location: Sileby Leics Status: Offline Points: 9454 |
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Once the basic checks are done ALL connections double checked and clean , the only thing I can think of is the possibility of a loose or corroder fuse? BUT look hard check and if no go contact an elektrikery expert .... MAY be the voltage reg worth the few quid contacting Paul at "Electrics Marine and slotting a new variable solid state regulator his fit to the same bracketry and plug right in are set for a lead acid battery .... Paul's details are in alternative parts or do a search for electrics marine Leicester , mention Guzziriders top bloke decent prices that include vat and postage in UK
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The Older i Get, The Better I Was
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