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T3 Charging Issue, going on 3 months. Help.

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AAC76T3 View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote AAC76T3 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Topic: T3 Charging Issue, going on 3 months. Help.
    Posted: 04 Oct 2019 at 01:17
I know there are dozens of posts about the early Bosch systems on here and trust me I’ve dissected every last one. Something funk is going on and I cannot seem to figure it out even though I’ve replaced almost every link in the chain. Will try and explain as best I can, Here goes:

T3 came into my hands with a lot of weird things done to it. Electronically, a dyna ignition system, an added cigarette lighter / charger, an in-line 30 am bus fuse between rectifier and batter +, hacked up interconnect to accommodate a jacked up ignition switch and cig lighter, along with an attempt at cheap aftermarket turn signals. 

After getting some mechanical stuff settled, I planned to move onto the cosmetics (she was painted bright orange with flake and cheap clear with eagle decals). That’s when it began. I noticed after a couple 20 mile hauls to and from work that when I got back and threw the tender on, she was almost completed dead, but no GEN light was coming on. So me being the novice Guzzi owner I was began reading up and replacing things I thought signs were pointing to. 

First replacement was rotor with brand new one. After that, GEN light came on, but no charge after rides. Shocked the rotor to magnetize, nothing.

Next was the stator Windings, brush holder and brushes. All brand new. The windings looked really old and burnt. I also broke one of the WUV windings too short to re soldered to the old one so swap the WUV outlet on stator house as well. Gen light still on, no charge. 

Replaced the regulator with a basic, non adjustable one. No change  
Replaced the rectifier, had a grounding issue at first and bike wouldn’t turn on, fixed the issue which was the spacer washers. No change in charging. 

Replaced the headlight interconnect from Greg Bender because it was all hacked up. (Thanks for all the help Greg!)

Replaced both left and right switches with simple K&S. 

All charging parts were from Euro Moto Electric. Jumped on a call with them and we found that stator was grounding out from touching on the inside. Fixed that with heat shrink and readjustment. No more grounding.

Test: We have slight volts coming down to juice the alternator. .6 I think it was? We have varying volts on each WUV yellow wire at the rectifier end coming off alternator. A jumper from D+ to DF on regulator does not shut light off at high revs (which according to Guzziology points to the alternator). Diode board tests fine with varying ohms going only one way when voltmeter probs are swap. 

That’s basically the gist. I’m told the fuse back to the battery from rectifier shouldn’t be an issue but I haven’t tried it without. Battery is Enduralast AGM and tests fine holds a good charge. I tried swapping batts with a smaller AGM and it did nothing.

I tried doing the alternator test in isolation mode that is in guzziology and I can’t get the bike to turn on. The B+ to battery seems to complete the circuit for the bike to start. There is also a second red wire that goes from the smaller prong on the hot side B+ up into the main harness, which as far as I’m aware was for the starter? 

The harness has continuity. My brain has none left. Please help. Any advice is appreciated. Here are some pics. Thanks in advance. 




Edited by AAC76T3 - 04 Oct 2019 at 02:00
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Chris A View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Chris A Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04 Oct 2019 at 12:57
No solution for you but your fuses need sorting out....red is too high a rating for some of the applications on a Guzzi
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Barry Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04 Oct 2019 at 14:58
Originally posted by Chris A Chris A wrote:

No solution for you but your fuses need sorting out....red is too high a rating for some of the applications on a Guzzi


As per owners manual for T3. 6x 16amp (red) fuses. 

You have specific and different guidance to share? Happy to hear it.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote johnno Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04 Oct 2019 at 15:13
I would start again first thing volts at battery non running then running around 4500 rpm
1100 sport corsa , Yam R1, guzzi 650tt rider
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote c13pep Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04 Oct 2019 at 15:15
I assume you've seen this on your side of the pond
https://wildguzzi.com/forum/index.php?topic=102980.0

But if it were me then I would be starting with a voltage check on the three yellow wires from the alternator with the engine running. I realise all is new but that`s no guarantee that one of the components isn`t faulty.

CHRIS

Edited by c13pep - 04 Oct 2019 at 15:19
you can`t have any fun in a straight line

Monza
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Keef Mayhem Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04 Oct 2019 at 15:23
Well it sounds like you have changed just about every charging component 😕
What wattage bulb have you got in the charging light ?
It’s supposed to be 1.2w

I’ve got a 69 ohm resistor in parallel with the charging light, if you look at the wiring diagram for a lemans 4/5 you can see it on there it just piggy backs off the light blue wire.


This drawing shows it as item 47 and specifies it as 80 ohm, 2 watts, it may not fix it but it removes any problems with the charging bulb and also keeps the charging system going should the bulb blow

If you haven’t already seen this booklet, Its a useful guide and explains the charging circuit and the resistor 🙂

Good luck


Edited by Keef Mayhem - 04 Oct 2019 at 15:30
So many bikes, so little time !
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote AAC76T3 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04 Oct 2019 at 16:19
Originally posted by Chris A Chris A wrote:

No solution for you but your fuses need sorting out....red is too high a rating for some of the applications on a Guzzi

16 Amp / Red fuse is correct for T3
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote AAC76T3 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04 Oct 2019 at 16:20
Originally posted by johnno johnno wrote:

I would start again first thing volts at battery non running then running around 4500 rpm

12V holds steady no matter the revs. No Rise.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote AAC76T3 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04 Oct 2019 at 16:23
Originally posted by c13pep c13pep wrote:

I assume you've seen this on your side of the pond
https://wildguzzi.com/forum/index.php?topic=102980.0

But if it were me then I would be starting with a voltage check on the three yellow wires from the alternator with the engine running. I realise all is new but that`s no guarantee that one of the components isn`t faulty.

CHRIS

Believe you me, i am definitely wishing now that i had just gone the Enduralast route instead of spending months and hundreds on this issue. That will end up being the final straw if i dont lose my marbles first.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote c13pep Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04 Oct 2019 at 16:32
At my age my marbles have long gone but you just learn to live without them

CHRIS
you can`t have any fun in a straight line

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote AAC76T3 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04 Oct 2019 at 16:36
Originally posted by Keef Mayhem Keef Mayhem wrote:

Well it sounds like you have changed just about every charging component 😕
What wattage bulb have you got in the charging light ?
It’s supposed to be 1.2w

I’ve got a 69 ohm resistor in parallel with the charging light, if you look at the wiring diagram for a lemans 4/5 you can see it on there it just piggy backs off the light blue wire.


This drawing shows it as item 47 and specifies it as 80 ohm, 2 watts, it may not fix it but it removes any problems with the charging bulb and also keeps the charging system going should the bulb blow

If you haven’t already seen this booklet, Its a useful guide and explains the charging circuit and the resistor 🙂

Good luck

Keef thank you for the info. I wasnt aware of that resistor set up in line with charge light. I will look into that. When Greg sent me a new headlight interconnect, i was exchanging the dash side of it and one of the dash light prongs pulled off, i believe it was the neutral light. So i tried to find a replacement socket for the dash lights and could not find them anywhere. I did however end up purchasing the small 12V 1.2W And replaced all of the dash bulbs. 

I have read most if not all of Gregs awesome and extensive info on his site. As well as bugged him for months. That booklet, as intensive and in depth as it is, has a lot of slight differences when it comes to specifics in diagrams and such. I believe its because its directed more towards 80s circuits? Le Mans and such. 

Regardless, I feel like it should'nt be THIS hard?!?!
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote AAC76T3 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04 Oct 2019 at 16:39
Originally posted by c13pep c13pep wrote:

I assume you've seen this on your side of the pond
https://wildguzzi.com/forum/index.php?topic=102980.0

But if it were me then I would be starting with a voltage check on the three yellow wires from the alternator with the engine running. I realise all is new but that`s no guarantee that one of the components isn`t faulty.

CHRIS

Volts coming back off the alternators WUV Yellows at the rectifier end were between 4-6 volts jumping around on each cable. So i feel like that right there eliminated the alternator as a whole being an issue, no?

Even though the regulator jumper test points to the alternator. See why my head is spinning?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote AAC76T3 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04 Oct 2019 at 16:42
Originally posted by Keef Mayhem Keef Mayhem wrote:

Well it sounds like you have changed just about every charging component 😕
What wattage bulb have you got in the charging light ?
It’s supposed to be 1.2w

I’ve got a 69 ohm resistor in parallel with the charging light, if you look at the wiring diagram for a lemans 4/5 you can see it on there it just piggy backs off the light blue wire.


This drawing shows it as item 47 and specifies it as 80 ohm, 2 watts, it may not fix it but it removes any problems with the charging bulb and also keeps the charging system going should the bulb blow

If you haven’t already seen this booklet, Its a useful guide and explains the charging circuit and the resistor 🙂

Good luck

Also, in the diagram, it shows the resistor inline from rectifier to fuse box, not inline to the charge light itself. My T3 does not have that wire going to the fuse box at all.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Keef Mayhem Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04 Oct 2019 at 16:45
Yes, that’s right the resistor links to the fused supply not the charge light. It’s shows it on the LM 5 wiring diagram too.
You may have to add a wire, it doesn’t matter too much where you pick up the live supply from but my bike had an empty fuse.

There’s no real difference in the charging systems on any of the older stuff, I’ve got a 1979 G5 and Spada 1000, a LM4 and 1989 LM5, everything is interchangeable until you get to around the time of the Cali 3 which had the later brushless charging system as did other models.

Edited by Keef Mayhem - 04 Oct 2019 at 17:30
So many bikes, so little time !
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Scousus maximus Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04 Oct 2019 at 19:35
If I'm reading this correctly you're saying 3 yellow phase wires are reading about 4~6 volts.With engine running you should be seeing much higher than this, I don't know the specifics for this model but you need in excess of 15 volts for the regulator to be able to regulate it DOWN to the charging voltage, it can't regulate it up.

I think?Confused

Regards,

John
2012 V7 Stone
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