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Stelvio electrics problems

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Wilko View Drop Down
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    Posted: 06 Aug 2018 at 15:22
Tried starting the bike yesterday to come home from Broseley bike show. Engine would barely turn over. Managed to bump start it (thanks to V7 Chris for the push) but about 1 mile from home noticed the ABS warning light come on, then speedo stopped working, then rev counter stuck and sounded like she was running on 1 cylinder, then conked out altogether. Fortunately was able to coast the rest of the way home.  Nothing at all on the dash. Pushed it into the garage and put on charge overnight. Started first time this morning and dash ok. It's a 2011 bike but battery replaced April 2016. Research on t'internet suggests may be a charging issue. Also, have noticed neither high nor low beam working.  Have checked fuses all ok. Anyone any ideas? I'm in Wellington, Shrops. Nearest MG agent seems to be Pete Jones in Shrewsbury. Anyone any experience of them?
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Brian UK View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Brian UK Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06 Aug 2018 at 15:49
Ah yes, lights don't work so it won't be charging at all. Daft design in my opinion. Jim Mac had this on his late Norge recently.

This is the wiring diagram. If the light logic relay fails, you get this problem.
If the main 30A fuse blows you get this problem.
And if fuse 1 (15A) of the aux fuses blows you also get this problem.


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Doug View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Doug Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06 Aug 2018 at 16:05
If the fuses and relays are OK then check the main cable at the back of the alternator, the crimps are very poor and a known failure item. Might be an idea to whip the tank off and put a new connector on anyway.
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Wilko View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Wilko Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06 Aug 2018 at 20:18
Many thanks for replies so far.  Never would have imagined that the non-functioning headlights and charging issue could have been connected. Sadly, the wiring diagram means nothing to meOuch. Have checked the fuses.  The auxiliary fuses are buried somewhere in the fairing but, although I can't find it the other functions of number 1 (15 amp) - horn, stop lamp, are working so looks as though that is OK which leaves the light logic relay.  Where the hell is that and how do you test it?  BTW I forgot to mention that after I had coasted to a halt there was a funny smell (not from my grunters).  One site I looked at suggested that the alternator drive belt could come off and be shredded but the bikes only don't 7500miles so I wouldn't have thought that could have failed but how do you check? Or could it just be that it had possibly been running on one cylinder?  As you can tell I'm completely in the dark literally and metaphorically!
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Doug View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Doug Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06 Aug 2018 at 21:01
Light logic relay and others are under the right hand side of the fairing, you have to take off the part of the fairing which houses the indicator to get to them. One way to check them is by swapping similar ones around.

Stick a voltmeter across the battery terminals or use the dash readout and see what voltage you're getting, it should go up to about 14 volts when engine speed is increased.

You'll need to start reading up on this sort of problem on the various Guzzi forums if you're going to sort this out yourself. It's not difficult to troubleshoot or fix, just takes patience, time and a methodical approach.
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Brian UK View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Brian UK Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06 Aug 2018 at 22:18
I know the connection on the alternator is a known issue, but it wouldn't cause the lights not to function. However, worth checking if you have the tank off.

If the stop lamps are working then that fuse is ok. The main 30 Amp fuse should be checked, and removed too, as poor connections can cause problems too.
Even unplugging the light logic relay and putting it back in can be enough to cure things.
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Dave P. View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Dave P. Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07 Aug 2018 at 00:32
What the devil is a light logic relay?
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Doug View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Doug Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07 Aug 2018 at 08:25
I know it may seem strange but if the alternator cable is not making a good connection there isn't enough power to charge the battery or activate the light logic relay so the headlights or the spotlights won't come on and the bike won't charge. 
 
Took me a good hour to find that one when I had exactly the same symptoms on my Stelvio. Found it by taking the tank off after making sure all the relays and fuses were ok then using a test lamp I wiggled all the cables I could see around the alternator until I found the big connector wasn't making a good contact.
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Brian UK View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Brian UK Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07 Aug 2018 at 09:58
Yes, but if the battery is low I would expect other things not to work so well. In this case the battery was charged again but still the lights didn't work, though everything else did, for a time.
But that main output cable from the back of the alternator is known to have dodgy connections. Though the wiring is a little different, I replaced the whole wire with a new heavier one direct to the battery on the Norge. Previously it had only been charging to about 13.5v.
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Doug View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Doug Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07 Aug 2018 at 10:12
On mine, even with a fully charged battery it would start and run but there'd be no head lights and no output from the alternator. One particular day I had to charge it up at work so that it would last the journey home. 
I'm no expert but I wonder if the relay is triggered by the ECU only when it sees a sufficient charge from the alternator. 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Ken-Guzzibear Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07 Aug 2018 at 12:01
As always do the easy to check stuff, look hard at the wiring in situ BUT as with any elektrikery if you are really unsure find a local auto elektrikery expert as this can end in tears for one that has no clue Battery and alternator chuck out a big oomph , short it and not only will it hurt it can potentially cost £££££££££££££££££££'s, by all means check fuses, swap relays look at wiring and connectors ....disconnect Battery before actually crimping cables a bare end can make quit a bang if live!!!!
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Brian UK View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Brian UK Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07 Aug 2018 at 14:31
Originally posted by Doug Doug wrote:


I'm no expert but I wonder if the relay is triggered by the ECU only when it sees a sufficient charge from the alternator. 

No because until the relay is energised there will be no charge. But the relay might be powered when the ECU sees an output from the phase sensor.
The early Norge has something similar, lights only come on when engine running, though there is no light logic relay.
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Wilko View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Wilko Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08 Aug 2018 at 18:10
For what these things cost, went out and bought a new relay from Halfords, plugged it in to the rearmost of the four relays (see picture) and ...... absolutely no difference. Started the engine and still no high or low beam and although I don't have any instruments to check it, presumably still no charging either. I'm assuming I've bought the correct relay please see the next piccie
The fuses seem OK. Have swapped them around. The blue main beam warning light on the dash comes on when I use the flash function but not the main beam itself. Should I now be taking the tank out as Doug has suggested in order to check the alternator connection. Is that a big job and is the connection easy to find in the first place and then fix? Sorry to sound thick but new to Guzzis and all this.

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Wilko View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Wilko Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08 Aug 2018 at 18:17
Looks like the piccie said weren't attached to my message just now so here's another go.
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iansoady View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote iansoady Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09 Aug 2018 at 10:55
There are 2 pin layouts for relays. Make sure your new one is the same as the old one.....


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