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Starter relays

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italianmotor View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote italianmotor Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09 Sep 2020 at 16:00
Thanks for the suggestion chaps, sorted it. I eventually took the starter motor off the bike (should have done this from the beginning, oh well..), the connection to the bolt that goes through the starter body was loose, hence dodgy connection. So, cleaned it all up, tighten it all up properly and heat date old rubber boot so it would slip back over the terminal. Put it back, tried the old relay again just in case, nothing, fitted the new relay, starts beautifully on the button now, and I did also have to restore the starter button with a different spring too out of some old switchgear - so all works perfectly.

But - still no charge light/charging. Today I checked all the wiring and also substituted the bulb, rotor, regulator and stator with like for like parts off a V50 that I know charges perfectly. Tried flashing the rotor too - nothing, no charge light. Only rectifier to look at but will it really be this? Also cleaned loads dried/dirty connectors. Earth strap and frame where it bolts too also cleaned up well. I tried following the charging circuit troubleshooter but don't have an ammeter so got stuck there. Everything else checks out ok so far. The biggest hassle is that all the stuff is packed into that small space in front of the airbag, all bolted to each other, and it's just a pig to get to or remove anything. Grrr..


Edited by italianmotor - 09 Sep 2020 at 16:12
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c13pep View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote c13pep Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09 Sep 2020 at 16:22
Looking at the wiring diagram the charge light bulb is connected directly to  the rectifier so any fault there would affect the whole charging system.

CHRIS
you can`t have any fun in a straight line

Monza

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Richard Hyatt View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Richard Hyatt Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09 Sep 2020 at 16:43
On my v50 the culprit was bad brushes not conducting to the comutator
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Brian UK View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Brian UK Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09 Sep 2020 at 17:02
That's probably the most common fault.
Brian.

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italianmotor View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote italianmotor Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09 Sep 2020 at 17:03
I tried a rotor and stator off a V50 that I know work, didn't make any difference. I measured the original brushes, they are within Guzziology spec - they are very curved though..

Originally posted by Richard Hyatt Richard Hyatt wrote:

On my v50 the culprit was bad brushes not conducting to the comutator
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italianmotor View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote italianmotor Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09 Sep 2020 at 17:04
I've checked the bulb, bulb holder, continuity to rectifier, all fine. Maybe next I'll have to pull out the rectifier.

Originally posted by c13pep c13pep wrote:

Looking at the wiring diagram the charge light bulb is connected directly to  the rectifier so any fault there would affect the whole charging system.

CHRIS
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Richard Hyatt View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Richard Hyatt Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09 Sep 2020 at 17:35
Do you get 12volts at  the brush .
This 12 volts comes from the regulator and gives you the field magnetism .
You need this in order to get any output from the rotor
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italianmotor View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote italianmotor Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10 Sep 2020 at 18:25
Finally got it charging - what a relief! I was lucky I have to say that I had other good parts to try part substition one by one to try and trace the fault, but, in the end, I believe that it was a case of the wiring to the rectifier being connected up incorrectly. The guy I bought it from said “yes it charges fine”, which I now find impossible to believe. Anyway, having eventually tried a known good rectifier, I then realised because of the bodged wiring, all in the same colour, with crappy pre-insulated terminals that I personally hate, that one of the the connections was wrong, but tough to spot with wire all the same colour. Once corrected, with wire sorted and correct colours reinstated, it all worked and that little charge light bulb lost up - I was so happy! So now, all the original components are back on the bike, and I have got rid of all the crappy bodged wiring and replaced with what I think are proper terminals and the right colours. No extra cost, just time, it takes a good while to unbolt then bolt up rectifier on these V35s as they’re all squeezed into very inaccessible spaces. I think that it also shows that often these pesky electrical issues just require time and concentration to resolve. Anyway, really, many thanks to all of you who helped with advice , it’s a great place to be able and come and get help/encouragement when these issues come up. 

It all starts up on the button and charges perfectly, so job done - just got to clean the carbs now. Here are some pics….










Edited by italianmotor - 10 Sep 2020 at 18:38
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Richard Hyatt View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Richard Hyatt Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10 Sep 2020 at 21:17
Well done.
Yes time, patience and slowly working through stuff.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote c13pep Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10 Sep 2020 at 21:56
Great result down to dogged perseverance Thumbs Up

CHRIS

you can`t have any fun in a straight line

Monza

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Brian UK Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10 Sep 2020 at 22:53
It doesn't help when some previous owner has replaced wires with just one colour.
Brian.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote iansoady Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11 Sep 2020 at 10:14
Almost as bad is when they do as advocated by some and use 7 core trailer wire where the colours bear no resemblance to original.
Ian
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote c13pep Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11 Sep 2020 at 14:52
I have to stick my hand up here  and admit to occasionally doing wiring repairs and using whatever is to hand including same coloured wire for different connections. It usually is a temporary repair to get a bike going but sometimes life gets in the way and `temporary` becomes `permanent` when I`ve managed to forget all about itConfusedConfusedConfused .
Never used trailer wire though but there`s still time I supposeOuch
This old age is not all its cracked up to beLOL

CHRIS
you can`t have any fun in a straight line

Monza

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iansoady View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote iansoady Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11 Sep 2020 at 16:45
I'll make a note.......
Ian
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