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danmiluk View Drop Down
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    Posted: 30 Aug 2016 at 17:01
Hi, my badge 81 spada nt (registered 83) has been laid up for about 10 years, last year I decided to tear it to pieces, powdercoat everything, and rebuild the old bird, It has been that long i can't remember how the rectifier was wired. I would appreciate some advice

1. The wires on the rectifier if anyone has a photo of the original wiring

2. The wires to the original fuse box.

3.This maybe the fault that is behind the rectifer wiring, no charge light & battery not recharging. there seems to be a couple of wires missing  they may have been stuck on the fuse bose by error.

4 possibly a photo of the alernator wiring.

There lies the problem i never took the wiring harness off and if i did iwould have taken photographs.
Ive got the wiring diagram from thisoldtractor for my the spada , spada nt, spada 3but none of them seem to be anything like mine.

any help would be appriceated

danny
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Brian UK View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Brian UK Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 30 Aug 2016 at 20:20
Yours should have he Bosch 3 phase alternator with slip rings on the rotor to energise it. All Guzzis around that time would be the same. It all changed in the late 80s when the Saprisa alternator was fitted, as in the Spada III.
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DrD View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote DrD Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 30 Aug 2016 at 20:27
My understanding is that the Bosch system requires the charge light to work if it does not have the bypass circuit. Sort that out first.
Maybe poor earths due to powder coating (you will be not be the first).
Useful sites include:
http://www.buchanan1.net/charge.html
http://www.gutsibits.co.uk/pr/TheShed/Downloads/BoschChargingSystemFaultFinder.pdf

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Ken-Guzzibear View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Ken-Guzzibear Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 30 Aug 2016 at 21:04
I put a how to check Bosch system on here easy to follow it is in the FAQ or electrical sect .

Start with that, the fail points on Bosch Are :-
1) brushes wear
2) brush holders break down
4) The rotor does fail basically the windings work harden and fail
NB replacing the Voltage regulator the huge tin box is easy, get a solid state plug in one variable charge rate that then allows you to fit an AGM battery and up the charge rate to 14.6 or 14.8 V max lead acid ones no more than the set rate 14.2V
Rarely does the rectifier fail , not really worth bothering to replace diodes there are replacement ones from Towza at Towzatronics

The ceramic fuses are also a fail point , the charge warning light is a must to have this system work and must be standard voltage .

Hope this helps anyone feel free to copy the simple how to check bosch system .....To be fair the Bosch system is very very reliable .....oh yes spares can be got from Motorworks as the system is the same as on the older BMW airheads ad they supply BMW now but USED to be Guzzi breakers I got a replacement brush and holder set from them and a g'teed but used rotor ..... some stators fitted to BMW are a different circumference where they fit to the timing chest I fitted a higher wattage one to my Guzzi by literally carefully filing the bottom edge works and has done for 26 yrs and oodles of miles I refurbished the charge system for the first time last year .
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Ken-Guzzibear View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Ken-Guzzibear Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 30 Aug 2016 at 21:08
the how to is in "General Electrical Issues scroll down you will see it
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danmiluk View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote danmiluk Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02 Sep 2016 at 08:10
Hi guys thanks for you're help. wiring sorted. fusebopx wires sorted. spent ages last night going through the checklist of thing to do posted by DRD still no go.
Ken-guzzibear

I cant find it do you think you can post a link and goodness only knows why this is typing in bold.


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DrD View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote DrD Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02 Sep 2016 at 08:48
Dan
One useful link is: http://www.thisoldtractor.com/guzzitech.dk/pdf/charging-around-the-circuit-john-noble.pdf
Helpful to me when I was doing my LM.
I think Ken's link is: http://www.guzziriders.org/testing-bosch-charge-circuit_topic2118.html
Again helpful to me when I was doing my LM.
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danmiluk View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote danmiluk Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02 Sep 2016 at 10:36
Thanks for the links ken.
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Mike H View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Mike H Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02 Sep 2016 at 13:13
Originally posted by danmiluk danmiluk wrote:

powdercoat everything,



Powder coat is a very good electrical insulator, so wherever you've got an earth point on the frame you've got to scrape it all off back to bare metal. When I did my rewire I had two basic earth points on the frame, one behind the steering head, and No. two at lower left side, rear of side panel area, where the wiring for brake light and regulator is.

Note also rectifier is earthed 2 ways, one through the steel mounting strips it's screwed onto, by virtue of the regulator negative side being connected to this when it's bolted on, these mounting strips are then bolted to the frame BUT again if these and/or the frame are powder coated there won't be any electrical continiuity.

The second earthing route is a short black wire from one of the regulator negaitve side bolts which goes to the nut and bolt than holds on the righthand battery side rubber, this is naff because it can never be tight enough to prevent corrosion getting in to upset continuity without crushing the rubber, so it's never tight enough.

What I did was replace this with a new longer wire that goes directly to battery negative terminal instead. Also I moved the location for the thick battery neg. earth cable to one of the gearbox rear cover screws, instead of the frame.

HTH






Edited by Mike H - 04 Sep 2016 at 22:00
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danmiluk View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote danmiluk Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04 Sep 2016 at 17:35
Thanks for all your help & advice guys found it to be a faulty connection at the fuse box, fix that hey prestow, charge light goes off when bike is running volt, volt meter pops into play.

The only thing is it's not charging above 12.5 volts, i think it needs to be around 14v could this be the rugulator that is at fault?

Thanks again. i really appreciate your help with this.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Brian UK Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04 Sep 2016 at 18:43
It should indeed charge above 12.5V. The problem could be several things, including the regulator.
But look at the simple and cheap fixes first.
 
Check the brushes on the slip rings, a poor contact there will give this result.
 
The charge light goes out at tickover speed, or higher?
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Mike H View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Mike H Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04 Sep 2016 at 22:01
Originally posted by Mike H Mike H wrote:


Note also regulator is earthed 2 ways,


Cock-up alert, I meant instead rectifier

Embarrassed


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Mike H View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Mike H Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04 Sep 2016 at 22:03
Originally posted by danmiluk danmiluk wrote:


The only thing is it's not charging above 12.5 volts, i think it needs to be around 14v could this be the rugulator that is at fault?


Needs to be over 2,000 rpm if memory serves.....

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danmiluk View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote danmiluk Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07 May 2017 at 11:59
The saga continuies, ignition on light on, no charge light, check all parts on on charge system, light comes on after hours of fiddling, going over and over the check list from the shed guzzibits, get my young lad to double check everthing all seems ok. Jump on the bike nip out for a 20 mile run to charge the battery a wee bit, get back no charge, out with the check list again. no ohms acrross slip rings. fight for 2 hours to get the rotor off.(tighten bolt with steel pin and a wee tap does not work, tighten as hard as i can then batter it with 4lb hammer, managed to miss everything else on the bike, here's hoping that's the problem, cause if it was ok then it's not now) order a new one and wait for it turn up, loads of anti seize grease getting slapped on when i refit the new rotor.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Ken-Guzzibear Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07 May 2017 at 20:48
you need the correct tool to get the rotor out as you screw it in it pops the rotor out Gutsibits sell them Have known many people try to use a steel pin only for it to bend in there ..... Well worth finding a decent manual Haynes or the Guzzi ones that are available online free to download
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