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Smoke at start up? 1000SP

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Jalfrezi View Drop Down
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    Posted: 13 Mar 2019 at 19:07
My journey with my 1000SP continues, and I am making progress.  However I am getting smoke from the exhausts from a cold start, and thinking I may have worn valve guides.  

I guess it's worth removing the heads and checking, but wonder if there are other things to check.  Also what else to do if I need the guides replacing.  Views and guidance most welcome.

TIA
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote johnno Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 13 Mar 2019 at 19:46
Just to be clear your warming engine up enough to clear any condensation Thumbs Up
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Jalfrezi Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 13 Mar 2019 at 20:41
I don't see smoke every time, but when I do it's after the bike is cold, and stood for a good while.  There is a lot of smoke at times, but it clears after a minute or so.

I'm thinking that oil is finding its way into the combustion chamber when the bike is stood for a while.  But really not sure if that makes sense.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote George S Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 13 Mar 2019 at 21:10
That is a classic symptom of worn valve guides. Bike stood for a while, small amount of oil in rocker cover passing through worn valve guides into combustion chamber. Cleared when started. 
If rings worn bike would smoke all the time. Worth while removing heads to check.
George
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote c13pep Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 13 Mar 2019 at 21:45
What colour is smoke as my 1150Rt will fill the garage with `smoke` as it warms up but is only condensation from the exhaust system. The longer its been stood the more the smoke which is white as against oil fumes which tend to be blueish.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Jalfrezi Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 13 Mar 2019 at 21:47
Seems white/pale grey to me, but smells of oil.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Brian UK Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 13 Mar 2019 at 22:35
Could still just be condensation. Get that on my Norge too, in cold weather.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote johnno Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 13 Mar 2019 at 22:36
Sounds like you and George might be on the right track . The other thing that can give a bit of smoke on start up is if you got to richer idle jet ?
 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Brian UK Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 14 Mar 2019 at 07:57
Worn valve guides will also usually give a puff of blue smoke on the overrun. Oil smoke does have a blue tint.
If this only happens when the bike is cold and then only for the first minute or so, and the "smoke" is grey, not blue, then I would put my money on water vapour/condensation.

Less likely to happen in summer, which is why you notice it at this time of year.

All exhaust will smell oily, especially at start up when it's running a bit rich.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Jalfrezi Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 14 Mar 2019 at 09:26
Thanks for all the input.  I will monitor it for now, and see if the "problem" goes away when the weather is more clement. 

Onto the next issue...
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote George S Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 14 Mar 2019 at 10:28
Might be worth checking spark plugs sooty, oiled etc would be good to know milage 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Jalfrezi Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 14 Mar 2019 at 15:02
Hi George,

Was worth doing as you said.  Just started her up, smoke from one side only, however after the initial cloud, I see some when revving the engine too, which I hadn't noticed before.

Both plugs are black, so I suspect that my choke issues are back again.  I will take her out for a long ride later, and see what the plugs are like afterwards.  However on the smoky (throttle) side, the plug looks a bit oily (see below), so I think I have two issues now.  Chokes sticking again, and oil getting into the combustion chamber.  I'm not pretty convinced I need to pull the head and maybe the barrel/piston, and investigate further.  I don't mind working on the bike, but need her up and running properly for the 23rd, which I think is now highly unlikely Ouch

Mileage, it's been round the clock, currently showing around 10K.  Was allegedly rebuild at some expense in the 14k miles.  It's probably irrelevant, but I only started noticing these issues after I chucked her down the road, she slid down the road on the smoky side.  Could that have any bearing on this?

Dirty plug


Edited by Jalfrezi - 14 Mar 2019 at 15:11
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Dave P. Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 14 Mar 2019 at 15:23
Clutching at straws here but I would remove the rocker box cover and insert a length of stiff wire down the oil drain hole.If it is partially blocked/obstructed the valve gear will become flooded in oil with obvious results.Make sure the wire is long enough to reach well down the hole past the cylinder to crankcase joint.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote George S Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 14 Mar 2019 at 15:36
At 90000 miles I would expect some wear to valve stems and guides at the least and would think piston rings worn. No way to tell without stripping top end.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote George S Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 14 Mar 2019 at 15:47
If you want to use it on 23Rd I would not worry about smoke on start up it should be OK. Give it a good looking at when you have more time. Have a ride out first for peace of mind 
George
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