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Selling unseen.

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cyclobutch View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote cyclobutch Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03 Jan 2018 at 13:43
Originally posted by iansoady iansoady wrote:

I must admit I hate selling bikes but unfortunately space dictates that it's essentially one in one out. I'll be looking at moving the Arrow on come Spring so I can get stuck into the Norton as I really only have space for one running bike and one receiving attention.

Potential Arrow owners please form an orderly queue (and I'm happy to have any form of communication and offer test rides to suitable vetted applicants!)

Kind of maybe fancy a Leader - I have a soft spot for leg shields. But yes, I too am out of space and out of luck. Lining up to sell my ill starred Sunbeam S7D and a Honda Helix. Maybe the Kawa H1 but I think that most years - it's just too much fun when I get it fired up. 
Butch
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote Tarquin Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03 Jan 2018 at 17:57
Originally posted by rapheal rapheal wrote:

if you are paying several thousand pounds for a motorcycle, motor vehicle or camper van, then the very least you can do is arrange to inspect it, or pay for a professional inspection
My Nephew was offered a Guzzi , but it was 140 miles away
I drove him there and road tested it
how hard is that ?
a Saturday morning in February, 30 quid in fuel, and 20 quid for lunch

There are plenty of professional scammers working the system that know all about money transfer systems and how to scam them, the Police will not get involved due to it being under a set amount, they have not got the resources

if a motorcycle or car does not sell, and the only offer you get appears to come from halfway across the country, then its either the wrong time of the year to sell it, or you are asking too much

fraudsters use the distance ploy to prevent meeting up, its much easier to run a scam that way
quite a few recently have been based in the Croydon area and the money is linked back to Nigeria, ( well know for financial fraud and 419 scams) Russian criminals, and Spanish criminals
if its sounds to good to be true then it usually is
no doubt a few people have had excellent results selling blind to a customer at distance, but it leaves the buyer open to problems if the machine has faults ie its a long way to return it
money transfers even through papypal have been known to vanish from accounts, especially when stolen money is used





Ok Raphael, can you now tell us how in the OP's set of circumstances, the seller is at risk.

We are obviously missing something that you are seeing clearly so why not tell us all properly how this scam works instead of simply stating how many scammers are out there. We all know that. How does this scam work?

By the way, Glasgow is 367 miles from Swindon so £30 in fuel won't cut it on 734 mile journey.

I live in Durham and bought my Cali 3 from a guy in Bexhill on Sea. I couldn't pop round to see it as I didn't have 3 days to spare.

Several phone calls and we both knew each was genuine . I sold my Centauro, Vmax , BMW R100RS and many more like this and have never had a problem.

No money in my bank account and the bike doesn't move. SIMPLES!!!

Obviously Paypal is a big no no but Bank Transfer is fine.
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rapheal View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote rapheal Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03 Jan 2018 at 20:17
Please dont patronise me, or try to belittle me with your superior skills debating skills
I am perfectly aware how far Glasgow is from Swindon, I live 20 miles from Swindon and make the Journey to Glasgow 4 times a year, 60 quid for fuel in my economical family saloon
I suggest you look at bank transfer scams
last year over 100 million was lost by consumers and very little reclaimed, and banks are one of the worst to try to recover money from
Far too many people get caught out, and 2 friends of mine have lost money when selling motor vehicles
if you think that everybody in the motorcycling world is perfect, you are naive, I have been conned by a so called enthusiast , nice big house, smart top of the range car on the drive
Luckily I collected the Motorcycle in a small van, and I wasnt the only one he caught out, I got off lightly



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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Tarquin Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03 Jan 2018 at 20:30
Nobody is belittling you Raphael, I'm simply asking you to explain how the scam works.

So far, all I have heard from you is a series of generalisations with no specific evidence or method.

Now once again, tell us how it works given the fact that the op is RECEIVING money to his bank account.

Honestly, I must really be naïve and so must so many others who simply don't see it. If you know how this works tell us.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Brian UK Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03 Jan 2018 at 22:14
The bank transfer scams are normally when someone is "persuaded" to transfer money to someone usually as an "investment". They never see it again. The other one is where emails are hacked and a normal transfer to a solicitor for buying a house is sent to the wrong recipient as a result. Money never seen again.
Large amounts of money have been lost in this way, but so far as I know not when someone is transferring in to your account.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote iansoady Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04 Jan 2018 at 10:32
I suppose the only risk is that you provide someone with your account number and sort code and this could potentially allow someone to hijack it (especially as you will also be giving them your address but probably not mother's maiden name etc) although I think that is highly unlikely.

When we all used cheques these had the account holder's name plus a/c number and sort code, and going a little further back even had the home address on some!

It's a personal decision but I would welcome first hand experience of someone losing out in the circumstances described. And in the meantime will continue in my possibly misguided ways.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote cyclobutch Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04 Jan 2018 at 10:50
Buying my Loop unseen from ebay, I insisted in paying a deposit up front (by PayPal) to ensure the vendor knew I was serious, and I was concerned he was reluctant enough to sell that he might change his mind. I paid the rest as a big pile of cash on pick up, so that at least I’d minimised my losses if it turned out to be a scam. We’d previously had an email dialogue and a few phone calls which allowed me to some extent judge his character.

So I guess the risk was his that I’d only more recently printed the cash. The bike was far enough away and involved van hire so I didn’t want to go the bank transfer route on the day and have that somehow not work out. The cash was all the real deal – I just broke into his house that evening and stole it back.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote iansoady Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04 Jan 2018 at 11:26
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote agriff Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04 Jan 2018 at 11:48
Sold my Guzzi G5 on ebay in November. Buyer came with a trailer to look before paying (was a previous owner of same bike who wanted it back) phoned his wife and she did a direct bank transfer, this was in my account  within seconds so I transferred it to another account just to be sure (all done on my phone).
Happy transaction

2 days later I noticed the buyer had paid me again via paypal so I had an extra £2500 in my paypal account. I contacted the buyer to let him know his mistake. He said he just clicked a button that he thought would get rid of the paypal reminders to pay for the bike but had actually paid me again so he was now £2000 overdrawn. 
I repaid him via paypal, next thing I know paypal has suspended my account and need 2 photo ID's to reinstate it. Later I checked my bank account and found paypal had taken the money from my bank account instead of my paypal account, so now I was £2000 overdrawn. 
I guessed the reason was because I had spent £5 on my paypal account so only had £2495 in it so they took the whole lot from my bank account. Had to transfer the paypal balance to my bank account to get out of being withdrawn.
I was lucky, if I hadn't of checked my account I would have been overdrawn for long enough to get charged fees

 Bloody nightmare paypal can be. I now try to avoid using it for various reasons.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote johnno Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04 Jan 2018 at 11:59
Well I've learned quite a bit from this thread , thanks
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Mike H Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04 Jan 2018 at 12:37
"Chicken nuggets don't dance on a Tuesday."
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote johnno Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04 Jan 2018 at 13:22
Mike Having read this I'm hanging onto all me bikes lol
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote cyclobutch Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04 Jan 2018 at 13:43
Mostly common sense there, though I'm with Johnno - which is why I now find myself with 13 of them; no space, no money and out of luck. And why I really must now move a couple on dammit.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote johnno Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04 Jan 2018 at 14:39
Originally posted by cyclobutch cyclobutch wrote:

Mostly common sense there, though I'm with Johnno - which is why I now find myself with 13 of them; no space, no money and out of luck. And why I really must now move a couple on dammit.
just Rd tax and MOT is now becoming a real financial pain let alone all the service work which is never ending it's just getting hard work with getting bloody older
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote cyclobutch Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04 Jan 2018 at 16:31
Yep - though a lot of my stuff is old enough to now be exempt on both counts (see changing law on pre '77 MOT requirement a little later this year), that just means it all breaks more frequently. 
Butch
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