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Scored oil pump face on G5 crankcase.

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Falcone
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    Posted: 16 Dec 2018 at 17:30
Hi everybody, 

First post for me on this forum, just a pity it's a bit of a cry for help...

So I've pulled my G5 motor apart for the winter project and came across this somewhat chewed up oil pump face.


Any thoughts as how best to sort this? I did think about mounting the case on a mill and taking a skim off....

Somebody's been in here before as the big end is already on its first oversize and another grind is in order as it's a bit scabby. 

I suspect this engine wasn't assembled under the cleanest of conditions...

Many thanks for any input. 

Cheers Grahame Smile
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Chris A View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Chris A Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 16 Dec 2018 at 21:12
Far from being an expert ...mine was a bit better than that but the pump itself was well scoured and out of spec.Still working  but never measured the pressure.Now with a new pump I'm getting above 4 bar on a fresh engine at tickover.....If you can get it milled it's doubtless worth doing and really consider a new pump if in doubt.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Pentode Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 16 Dec 2018 at 21:31
Hi Chris,

Thanks for your reply. 

I may get in touch with my tame toolmaker and if he can take a whisker off it to clean it up. I'll definitely be getting a new pump and was thinking about HMB's offering -


Anybody any experience of these and whether they're worth the extra cash?

Cheers Grahame 
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Brian UK View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Brian UK Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 16 Dec 2018 at 21:51
If you have some plate glass and some grinding compound, you could probably lap it in yourself.

But check the condition of the rest of the pump, gears and inside of the body.
Brian.

Better 5 minutes late in this world than years early in the next.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Pentode Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 17 Dec 2018 at 05:54
Hi Brian,

Yes, I think I'll try that first as I can always resort to milling if it doesn't work out.

I may need to use a block of ground steel and wet & dry because the pump surface is recessed in the timing chest.

The pump is likely to be sh**ged but I'll have a look and see just out of curiosity.

Thanks for your help.

Cheers
Grahame


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Brian UK Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 17 Dec 2018 at 07:50
Yes, forgot it was inside the timing case.
You would also have to be very careful to remove all traces of the paste afterwards which might not be so easy.
Brian.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Chris A Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 17 Dec 2018 at 09:40
My new one was the HMB one .The local Guzzi guru won't touch Stein Dinse repops but I really don't know if there have been problems with their version of the pump...as far as my experiance goes HMB is good stuff.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote iansoady Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 17 Dec 2018 at 10:16
If it's an integral part of the casting then a skim with a mill looks like the best option. Those score marks look bad but are probably only a couple of thou deep. Is there likely to be an issue with the depth of the gears once skimmed?
Ian
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Pentode Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 17 Dec 2018 at 12:33
Brian,

Well, luckily the crankcase is completely stripped so cleaning the paste out shouldn't be too difficult.


Chris,

Thanks for the info' on HMB Smile


Ian,

Thanks for chipping in.

Score marks may not be as deep as they look because there's quite a burr that's been thrown up.

Hopefully, there won't be a problem with the gears as I won't be touching the pump body or as is more likely the case, I'll be getting a new one.

Many thanks chaps!
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Chris A Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 17 Dec 2018 at 13:24
The data for measuring the pump clearances with feelers is in the Guzzi workshop manual .If you are in that deep and suspect contamination then going the full 9 yards and cleaning up the sludge trap in the crank would be wise move too but I suspect that that was already on your list !!
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Pentode Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 17 Dec 2018 at 14:55
Hi Chris,

Yes, the crank's out and I've whipped the sludge trap plug out. Not a lot in there to be honest so it's clearly been done before.

As for the pump, well judge for yourself - looks a bit too scuffed for my liking...



Cheers Grahame
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Brian UK Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 17 Dec 2018 at 16:14
What matters is the end float on the gears. If that is still minimal, then the pump will work OK.
Brian.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Pentode Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 17 Dec 2018 at 21:27
Hi Brian,

Good point, I'll have a look tomorrow and see what we have 🙂

Thanks Grahame 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Brian UK Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 17 Dec 2018 at 22:03
I'm fairly sure if you stripped any pump you would find some scoring like you have. Did you have reason to think the oil pressure was low?
Brian.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Pentode Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 17 Dec 2018 at 22:09
The oil pressure's okay as I've checked it with a gauge. I was more concerned about so many chewed up precision faces to be honest, and bits of metal floating about where they shouldn't be.
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