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Quota 1000 error codes

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Gianni View Drop Down
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    Posted: 12 Aug 2020 at 17:28
Brief background. Bought bike about 10 years ago as a source of spares for my main Quota. Bike was running fine when last used.

Had a little time on my hands recently so decided to get it on the road.

Removed all the fuel-related fuel injection parts and cleaned them up before refitting with new air and fuel filters, injectors serviced by MrInjector, and (mostly) new hoses.

Bike fired up and ticked over fine but when it got warm it sulked and ran rich. Checked the oil and air temperature sensors electrically and by substiution and they are fine. Connected up the LED warning light and am getting the codes 3.2 (problem with MAP barometric pressure sensor) and 3.3 (problem with TPS). I have tested the MAP with substitution from the one from my other bike, and electrically - no problems. The TPS reads between 700 ohms closed and 1300 ohms fully open. All circuits have tested good back to the ECU plug. Bike is now running okay after all the messing around but I am STILL getting the 3.2 and 3.3 codes.

This appears to be a fault rather than a set-up problem plus I did not touch the TPS apart from unplugging and plugging it. Any thoughts as to next steps in diagnosing and resolving the problem?

TIA
Le Mans 1, Spada, Cali 1, T3 Mongrel, Le Mans V, Quota x 2, Stelvio TT
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Richard Hyatt View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Richard Hyatt Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12 Aug 2020 at 18:02
From memory, tps sensors have about 0.7volts at idle and about 4.8 v going back to the ecu on the signal wire.
I think these are quite generic voltages. 
Someone will confirm I'm sure.
You could see what you have on your signal wire in the 1st place
3 wires in the connector I presume
5v
Earth
Signal out

I get a pin into the signal wire at the plug side and then I can monitor the voltage going out of the signal wire across the open to closed range

You can use the pin trick and monitor variation of voltages at the air temp sensor, I must admit I thought they were about 600 to 3k ohms range


Edited by Richard Hyatt - 12 Aug 2020 at 18:06
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Gianni View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Gianni Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12 Aug 2020 at 18:33
Hi Richard,

that looks to be useful diagnostic information - thank-you.

Could you expand please which wire you mean by the signal wire (see below) on the TPS and on which wire(s) I should measure the voltages? I have not yet deduced which wires carry a voltage supply and which carry meaningful voltages back to the ECU for processing.

My wiring is standard (based on comparison with the Quota fuel injection manual) as follows:

TPS pin 1 yellow to ECU pin 30
TPS pin 2 red/black to ECU pin 17
TPS pin 3 white to ECU pin 11

MAP pin 1 black to ECU pin 15
MAP pin 2 white to ECU pin 11
MAP pin 3 yellow to ECU pin 30

IIRC (it was this morning) MAP pin 3 read 5v and MAP pin 2 read 25-35 mV. Will check again tomorrow.
Le Mans 1, Spada, Cali 1, T3 Mongrel, Le Mans V, Quota x 2, Stelvio TT
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Richard Hyatt Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12 Aug 2020 at 19:33
Ok
Tps 
On the plug, look into the 3 wires with ign on and identify ---
which gives you 5volt.
Which gives you earth
And the remaining wire is the signal wire back to the ecu.
It is this wire that (when plugged back in of course) sends the signal for more or less throttle to the ecu
It is this wire you get to get the test pin into,  and connect your meter on volts red wire to
The black meter wire is of course earth.
Try this first

The track across which the wiper moves , sucks up the voltage by varying amounts of earth leaving a varying amount for the ecu 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Gianni Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 13 Aug 2020 at 09:49
Thanks again Richard - your advice and knowledge has really helped me along.

Results from this morning's faffing:

TPS pin 1 yellow from ECU pin 30 - 5.02V
TPS pin 2 red/black to ECU pin 17 - 0.4V (min throttle) to 4.4V (max throttle)
TPS pin 3 white to ECU pin 11 - earthed correctly

MAP pin 1 black to ECU pin 15 - 4.52V (equivalent to ~1,000 milibars which is reasonable)
MAP pin 2 white to ECU pin 11 - earthed correctly
MAP pin 3 yellow from ECU pin 30 - 5.02V

So everything seems to by working OK. Except the TPS seemed to be working contrary to the way described in the manual (lower voltage at larger openings) but I suspect the manual graph Y axis is mislabelled here because a potentiometer is a resistance device.

Bike seems to be starting and running fine. I cannot road test it as it has no MoT.

I know that "some-one" has been in the ECU because the chip is set in white foamy material unlike that in my other Quota. Wonder if the faults were genuine (caused by intermittent wiring problems during reassembly), and are now cured, but they persist in some non-volatile memory of a non-standard chip. Next step is to sub a known working ECU if I can find one. Don't want to risk the one from my other bike.
Le Mans 1, Spada, Cali 1, T3 Mongrel, Le Mans V, Quota x 2, Stelvio TT
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Richard Hyatt Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 13 Aug 2020 at 12:54
Ok,
If you carefully marked the slots on the tops, to ensure replacement exactly as  before.
Then you could try relaxing the 2 screws and turning the tops a shade until you get nearer 4.8 or 4.9 volts.
You can always put it back !!

Just an aside, the ecu parameters in their mapping are clever. They allow x% variation then flag up a fault.
I had a jaguar years back with a engine warning light that showed tps mismatch. 
Reset it as discussed and light went off.
The mapping processes are very clever in their creation and input parameters.
I need to get out more I know !


Edited by Richard Hyatt - 13 Aug 2020 at 13:08
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Gianni View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Gianni Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 13 Aug 2020 at 14:15
I think I'll get it on the road before I break it some more Smile

Really useful learning experience though. I'll be much more confident touring on my other Quota now I know all this.
Le Mans 1, Spada, Cali 1, T3 Mongrel, Le Mans V, Quota x 2, Stelvio TT
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Richard Hyatt Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 13 Aug 2020 at 14:49
Good idea!
Especially as you feel someone's been in there before
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Brian UK Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 13 Aug 2020 at 14:52
When checking the TPS, worth checking if the voltage on the signal wire progresses smoothly from one end to the other. This is best done with an analogue meter rather than digital.

A bad connection on the track will show up as the voltage jumping about as the track is moved. This can play havoc in the poor ECU.
Brian.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Gianni Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12 Jun 2021 at 17:41
Fired up my other Quota yesterday.

It started and ran sulkily and, after briefly toasting my fingers on the downpipes while making sure both cylinders were running, I gave up.

Tried again today and saw it was giving a 1.3 error code. This after the bike has sat for ~9months idle. Seems the flywheel sensor was sulking so I unbolted it, cleaned off a shard of metal, and put it back in place without bolting it up - started it up and problem had disappeared! Quickly knocked up a cardboard gasket/spacer to increase the gap, bolted it in and the bike started and ran fine.

But why would the sensor position change while the bike is sitting doing nothing?
Le Mans 1, Spada, Cali 1, T3 Mongrel, Le Mans V, Quota x 2, Stelvio TT
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Brian UK Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12 Jun 2021 at 19:09
The shard of metal you cleaned off was the problem.
The gap should be checked every time, though exactly how critical it is I don't know.
Brian.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Gianni Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12 Jun 2021 at 23:54
I know it is meant to be 0.6-1.2mm but how does one measure it?


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Brian UK Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 13 Jun 2021 at 08:10
With a vernier gauge, measure the depth from the face to the wheel inside, then measure the protrusion of the sensor from it's face.
Take one from the other and you have the gap. Then add or remove shims accordingly.
Brian.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Gianni Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 13 Jun 2021 at 08:25
Thanks.

I genuinely had not thought of doing it that way and had some daft ideas involving blutak!
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Gianni Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 13 Jun 2021 at 13:06
And the damn thing was sulking again this morning with 1.3 flashing away. Took the gasket out and all OK again. Seems like I am chasing the problem and perhaps causing it by fixing it...
Le Mans 1, Spada, Cali 1, T3 Mongrel, Le Mans V, Quota x 2, Stelvio TT
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