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V50 MONZA rebuild

Printed From: guzziriders.org - moto guzzi forum
Category: Modifications and Restorations
Forum Name: Restorations
Forum Description: For all the details of your Guzzi's restoration
URL: http://www.guzziriders.org/forum_posts.asp?TID=9064
Printed Date: 17 Jan 2019 at 04:33
Software Version: Web Wiz Forums 12.00 - http://www.webwizforums.com


Topic: V50 MONZA rebuild
Posted By: c13pep
Subject: V50 MONZA rebuild
Date Posted: 28 Jul 2018 at 09:52
Started on the boxes of bits that are currently my MONZA project decided to check out the engine which looks to have been bead blasted. The engine was seized so full strip was only solution, however when I tipped the lump forward what appeared to be sand came out of the alternator cavity !!!(2 tablespoons) Further stripping saw one piston with sand on top of it (1 tablespoon)

It appears the engine and gearbox have been sand blasted as a lump by some numpty doing a quick clean up job!!!!

What a waste of a fine old engine, hopefully I can recover enough pieces to make it a viable proposition

CHRIS

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you can`t have any fun in a straight line

Monza project
BMW R1150RT



Replies:
Posted By: iansoady
Date Posted: 28 Jul 2018 at 10:13
Provided it hasn't been turned over it may be OK inside?


-------------
Ian
1982 V50
1952 Norton ES2


Posted By: c13pep
Date Posted: 28 Jul 2018 at 14:45
Originally posted by iansoady iansoady wrote:

Provided it hasn't been turned over it may be OK inside?



I`m assuming the worst, if someone's dim enough to sand blast a built motor then they`re potentially likely to try and start it, also the gearbox was attached so it got the same treatment
It looks as if the bottom end may have survived although the rods are rusty.
All will be revealed when I`ve washed all the parts.
On a positive note the chassis and bodywork are in quite good nick
I`m loath to let a Monza be lost so maybe a keeper regardless of cost
CHRIS

-------------
you can`t have any fun in a straight line

Monza project
BMW R1150RT


Posted By: Jerry atric
Date Posted: 28 Jul 2018 at 15:33


Posted By: Mike H
Date Posted: 28 Jul 2018 at 22:23
Holy crap Ouch




-------------
"Chicken nuggets don't dance on a Tuesday."


Posted By: dan_s
Date Posted: 29 Jul 2018 at 06:28
This engine is sending you a message:"i'm a wheelbarrow, i have sand in me, you deserve better".
So I'd put in the lovely monza an engine with acceptablepower, like a V65.


Posted By: c13pep
Date Posted: 29 Jul 2018 at 10:54
Originally posted by dan_s dan_s wrote:


This engine is sending you a message:"i'm a wheelbarrow, i have sand in me, you deserve better".
So I'd put in the lovely monza an engine with acceptablepower, like a V65.


Funnily enough I had the engine in a wheelbarrow when I unloaded it at my end so maybe I should just have added cement


I have the basics of the original engine ie. casings a bottom end and the heads look to be salvageable. The jury is still out on the pistons and barrels so all is not lost. I will retain the casings at all costs just to save the original engine numbers however it looks to be a long and patient renovation just to obtain parts.


CHRIS

-------------
you can`t have any fun in a straight line

Monza project
BMW R1150RT


Posted By: c13pep
Date Posted: 01 Aug 2018 at 09:12
Update on Monza engine strip down it looks like most things are salvageable now that I`ve cleaned out the crap except for at least one cylinder but probably both, so looking into rechroming them if I can find someone reliable. The pistons may be salvageable but its a big `maybe` seeing as the rings had to be chiselled out
CHRIS

-------------
you can`t have any fun in a straight line

Monza project
BMW R1150RT


Posted By: Brian UK
Date Posted: 01 Aug 2018 at 09:14
You sure they are chrome bores? Thought they were Nikasil.


-------------
Brian.

Better 5 minutes late in this world than years early in the next.


Posted By: c13pep
Date Posted: 01 Aug 2018 at 11:17
Originally posted by Brian UK Brian UK wrote:

You sure they are chrome bores? Thought they were Nikasil.


The chunk that's come off certainly looks like chrome and workshop manual mentions chrome as not being machinable
CHRIS









-------------
you can`t have any fun in a straight line

Monza project
BMW R1150RT


Posted By: c13pep
Date Posted: 01 Aug 2018 at 11:23
Looking for a company that can replate my Monza cylinders has anyone got any recommendations

CHRIS

-------------
you can`t have any fun in a straight line

Monza project
BMW R1150RT


Posted By: dan_s
Date Posted: 01 Aug 2018 at 15:02
Tried gutsibits or motomecca for new cylinders?
There are several firms in England who replate nikasil.



Posted By: c13pep
Date Posted: 10 Aug 2018 at 15:43
Just an update on my Monza restoration I have managed to source an excellent pair of cylinders from Ebay (seller homernmarj) but DVLA have put a spanner in the works. Spoke to DVLA today, the actual person dealing with my case, (now there`s a novelty) very helpful lady, who told me that the reg and the frame number don`t match their records. I now have to send in more photos of the boxes of bits etc. so that they can do more investigating in order to assign me an age related plate.
This restoration is proving a proper challenge, not least on my patience as the frame has no stampings on it apart from Moto Guzzi which is covered up by the Vin plate, so potentially the frame could be a `ringer` or the vin plate is fake. Oh joy       

CHRIS

-------------
you can`t have any fun in a straight line

Monza project
BMW R1150RT


Posted By: Mike H
Date Posted: 10 Aug 2018 at 17:07
Bum. Ouch




-------------
"Chicken nuggets don't dance on a Tuesday."


Posted By: c13pep
Date Posted: 12 Aug 2018 at 12:50
Just finished trawling the web for bike parts and came across a SWISS listing on Ebay selling blank Moto Guzzi vin plates, which for extra money they will engrave

Makes me wonder about my own situation!!!!!

CHRIS

-------------
you can`t have any fun in a straight line

Monza project
BMW R1150RT


Posted By: stuv65
Date Posted: 13 Aug 2018 at 12:33
I was refused an MOT last month as the guy couldn't read the frame number stamped on the headstock.  Told me it could easily be a ringer!!

Now I'm worried as there must be SOOOOOOOOOOOOOO many 1984 Lario ringers out there !!!!!!!!

The only useful advice he gave me was to re-stamp the frame.  Now if you can legally re-stamp a frame doesn't that lend itself to abuse?

confused...




Posted By: Brian UK
Date Posted: 13 Aug 2018 at 13:08
On my Norge the VIN plate is buried behind the fairing. You can see it, but a bunch of cables prevents anyone reading the number.
Presumably your tester would have refused an MOT for this too. But I can't present the bike without the fairing so he could read the number as that means no front lights.


-------------
Brian.

Better 5 minutes late in this world than years early in the next.


Posted By: iansoady
Date Posted: 13 Aug 2018 at 15:35
My local MoT place always asks for the V5C or an old MoT to be taken along so he can read the VIN off that. Probably highly illegal.....


-------------
Ian
1982 V50
1952 Norton ES2


Posted By: Mike H
Date Posted: 13 Aug 2018 at 15:50
One time it was insisted we get the VIN off the frame, never mind it was on the V5 and the DVLA database .. Ouch

I kept cocking it up by interpreting one of the 5-pointed stars as a '4', "No", he kept saying,"it dunna match what I got here, try again"




-------------
"Chicken nuggets don't dance on a Tuesday."


Posted By: c13pep
Date Posted: 16 Aug 2018 at 10:41
There is currently a red V50 frame on Ebay for £60 but when I messaged the buyer about any numbers on the frame he stated that "all the numbers are there and that by separate negotiation I could buy the V5 which was currently in use on his other bike"

It looks like mix and match is more prevalent than I first thought!!!!

CHRIS


-------------
you can`t have any fun in a straight line

Monza project
BMW R1150RT


Posted By: Mike H
Date Posted: 17 Aug 2018 at 13:36
Blimey...



-------------
"Chicken nuggets don't dance on a Tuesday."


Posted By: c13pep
Date Posted: 06 Sep 2018 at 14:44
Trying to find out the relevance of the numbers stamped on the bottom rim of each barrel (1611505 and 1611506) as I try to match with my pistons which are stamped C (largest size). So far can`t find barrels listed separately on any of my usual research sites and can`t find any other marks on barrels apart from Guzzi eagle.
Any assistance would be greatly appreciated.

CHRIS

-------------
you can`t have any fun in a straight line

Monza project
BMW R1150RT


Posted By: rapheal
Date Posted: 08 Sep 2018 at 12:28
Nah hes just a crook !!



Posted By: c13pep
Date Posted: 05 Oct 2018 at 09:15
Following sand in the engine I am now faced with a powder coated swing arm that has not been masked off, hence pivot threads are now coated. Is there an easy way to remove powder coating from threads without having to recut the thread bearing in mind it`s an M20 X 1 fine thread in aluminium

CHRIS

-------------
you can`t have any fun in a straight line

Monza project
BMW R1150RT


Posted By: iansoady
Date Posted: 05 Oct 2018 at 09:59
I'd try a series of different solvents - acetone, cellulose thinners etc but suspect none of them will touch the powder coating. Some might soften it.

Tracy tools will do you a tap for £12+ if you need to go that way. https://www.tracytools.com/taps-and-dies/metric-taps-dies/20-x-1-metric" rel="nofollow - https://www.tracytools.com/taps-and-dies/metric-taps-dies/20-x-1-metric



-------------
Ian
1982 V50
1952 Norton ES2


Posted By: Brian UK
Date Posted: 05 Oct 2018 at 10:05
I would cut round the threaded hole then try to peel off the coating from the threads with a scriber or similar pointy tool.



-------------
Brian.

Better 5 minutes late in this world than years early in the next.


Posted By: dan_s
Date Posted: 05 Oct 2018 at 11:37
Paint remover


Posted By: Steve-e
Date Posted: 05 Oct 2018 at 17:22
If you go down the paint stripper route, Starchem Synstryp actually works.
Take care using it though.


Posted By: c13pep
Date Posted: 12 Oct 2018 at 16:34
Couldn`t manage to dislodge powder coating from threads so took advice from local powder coating company who said to retap the threads as the only sure way of not causing damage.
The swing arm bearings in the gearbox casing did cause major headaches with even my blind hole bearing puller unable to shift them. After watching various videos of bearing removal including using bread, plasticine, wet kitchen roll I ended up using a miniature cutting disc in the Dremmel to remove inner race before finally using puller and slide hammer to remove outer race.
It appears MG use Loctite on their bearings, which after 37 years sets like super glue but at least I`m progressing, albeit slowly

CHRIS

-------------
you can`t have any fun in a straight line

Monza project
BMW R1150RT


Posted By: Jerry atric
Date Posted: 12 Oct 2018 at 20:36
On the subject of bearing lock. I know it's obvious (NOW!) I bought some on Ebay, not Loctite but a lot cheaper in exactly the same bottle but it really isn't very good. Just a tip to anyone needing bearing lock.


Posted By: George S
Date Posted: 12 Oct 2018 at 21:34
If it's not very good it's not cheap. 
Stay with Loctite Various products in different strengths Great product.
http://hybris.cms.henkel.com/medias/sys_master/root/h67/hca/9179859583006/Industrial-Product-Selector.pdf" rel="nofollow - http://hybris.cms.henkel.com/medias/sys_master/root/h67/hca/9179859583006/Industrial-Product-Selector.pdf




-------------
George


Posted By: George S
Date Posted: 12 Oct 2018 at 21:40
By the way if you apply heat to loctite it will loosen up. Powerful air dryer will do the job if worried about paint. To avoid pain and suffering don't tell the wife!

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George


Posted By: c13pep
Date Posted: 13 Oct 2018 at 10:07
On this occasion heat didn`t work, neither heat gun or blow torch made any difference, but these bearings will have lain untouched for 37 years so not sure what bearing lock would have been available then.
CHRIS

-------------
you can`t have any fun in a straight line

Monza project
BMW R1150RT


Posted By: George S
Date Posted: 13 Oct 2018 at 11:54
Had same problem with headstock bearings on 1000s and that was only 28 years old. When all else fails dremel essential tool 

-------------
George


Posted By: c13pep
Date Posted: 17 Oct 2018 at 09:23
Does anyone have any pictures or a link to a schematic of the dash + headlight mountings on a MONZA. I think I have all the fittings but am wondering whether there are rubber bushes for the dash mounting bracket where they fit on the forks or are they just trapped between headstock and headlight bracket bushes.
CHRIS

-------------
you can`t have any fun in a straight line

Monza project
BMW R1150RT


Posted By: c13pep
Date Posted: 14 Nov 2018 at 19:00
Advice needed on repairing ABS nose cone that has cracks in it.

The Monza nose cone has been repaired several times previously but none are what could be described as either good or permanent (use of fibre glass). Has anyone successfully repaired ABS panels on the forum, all suggestions greatly appreciated
CHRIS    

-------------
you can`t have any fun in a straight line

Monza project
BMW R1150RT


Posted By: Brian UK
Date Posted: 14 Nov 2018 at 21:36
First of all are you certain it's ABS?

Go to your nearest model shop and buy a bottle of Plastic Weld.  You can also buy sheets of ABS to strengthen behind the breaks.

For a crack, try to ensure it's all as clean as possible, then with a drop of the liquid on the end of a flat blade screwdriver, run along the crack and the liquid will seep in. You will have to go over the crack again most likely to ensure enough of the liquid has gone into the crack. Do the same on the back. Then hold the crack together for a few minutes.
The crack will weld up and be almost invisible.

I have repaierd larger breaks in a similar way but adding bits of ABS sheet behind, again put plenty of the liquid between the parts to be welded and hold them together.

You will probably have to do your best to remove any fibreglass still sticking to the ABS and have a clean surface.

I always now have a bottle of this in the shed, and have repaired loads of plastic bits with it.

It won't touch polypropylene though.


-------------
Brian.

Better 5 minutes late in this world than years early in the next.


Posted By: c13pep
Date Posted: 15 Nov 2018 at 13:36
Thanks for that Brian, unfortunately our model shops have long gone but have ordered Plastic Weld online. The fibre glass literally fell off when I undid the mounting bracket and had not properly adhered to the fairing itself!!!
I am fairly certain the nose cone is made from ABS and that it`s original, so restoration was the only option as the pattern ones are fibre glass and look to be a tad flimsy

CHRIS

-------------
you can`t have any fun in a straight line

Monza project
BMW R1150RT


Posted By: c13pep
Date Posted: 22 Nov 2018 at 14:07
Update to ABS nose cone repair, Plastic weld worked a treat however we experimented with some plumbers solvent joint weld that also did the job and is available from Screwfix etc.
Another bit of the original bike saved so best result all round

CHRIS

-------------
you can`t have any fun in a straight line

Monza project
BMW R1150RT


Posted By: chrisshrops
Date Posted: 10 Jan 2019 at 14:56
get a bead of weld put round them they should pop out then 


Posted By: Jim Mac
Date Posted: 11 Jan 2019 at 09:15
Pics as you go along would be good for us voyeurs

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Norge 1200 GT 8v   T5 Polizia
Too old to die young


Posted By: Chris950s
Date Posted: 11 Jan 2019 at 10:27
Originally posted by Jim Mac Jim Mac wrote:

Pics as you go along would be good for us voyeurs
and I thought you were Scottish, Jim Wink

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Chris and Karen - Essex
2011 Stelvio NTX, 1974 950S (750S replica still in bits), 1966 Triumph T100SS 52 years young this year!


Posted By: Ken-Guzzibear
Date Posted: 14 Jan 2019 at 11:45
only just read this however I have a V50 frame with log book if you need one you would have to collect it just also if you are on facebook contact Tim Hicks he very successfully put a 750 engine into his Monza and has just ordered an 840 big bore kit he is very well versed in Monza fiddling about with .....if the frame is of use pm me with offer no reasonable offer refused , there are a fair few engine parts inc crankcases the frame is currently on sorn and to be fair it is a pain to keep doing would rather it be used

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The Older i Get, The Better I Was



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