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ben View Drop Down
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    Posted: 08 Jan 2020 at 12:00
Hi guys . 
Reading here and there . I hurd people mention that the right hand points do the left hand cylinder and visor virsa ? Is correct.? Am having miss fire issues on my monza . But have had it running well but not long . New coils new condenses plugs leads ect . Think dyna is the answer?  Cheers 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote c13pep Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08 Jan 2020 at 12:52
Yes manual confirms L/H points control R/H cylinder, it`s a Moto Guzzi thing
The points work well when properly set up, did you lubricate the timing bob weights and check out the 2 advance springs. I`ve started to change the timing springs when rebuilding engines as I`m fairly sure the ones in my Monza were original. Another weakness on mine was the felt pad that lubricates the points cam was bone dry and so had worn enough not to be touching the cam at all

CHRIS

Edited by c13pep - 08 Jan 2020 at 13:04
you can`t have any fun in a straight line

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ben View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote ben Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08 Jan 2020 at 17:07
Cheers well I binged a new condenser on it and it ran well I went for a ride . The points are wired up RH to RH.  It seemed fine  could it be firing on a wasted spark ? .I'll swap it round tomorrow and see what happens . It seem to run well the way it is tho?  
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote ben Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08 Jan 2020 at 17:14
And yes all points gapped proper .i Am running a no rev counter set up so had to remove the rev counter gear from inside the chain housing(due to it making noise with no cable in it ) so when re assembly.  Everything was cleaned checked and lubed.  However 1 spring on the advance job seemed a little weak . But again ride went well .
Ps should my down pipes be glowing red ?
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Dave P. View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Dave P. Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08 Jan 2020 at 18:09
Ps should my down pipes be glowing red ?
[/QUOTE]

NO

That could be an indication of retarded ignition timing.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote c13pep Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08 Jan 2020 at 20:56
As above glowing pipes are a no no
The points system does not give a wasted spark
It doesn`t matter which set of points operate which cylinder so long as it`s timed appropriately, however if not standard then the flywheel marks will not be as per the workshop manual for timing the bike.
Are the factory marks lined up on the points plate and the casing as a starting point for timing

CHRIS
you can`t have any fun in a straight line

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote ben Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09 Jan 2020 at 11:36
I'll have to look.  But like I said its running great beast it ever has . I haven't got a indicator wheel to check proper   I'll knock one up when back in shop . And strobe it up see what's what . I never touched any advance retard yet . It's the last thing . As when I rode it back when I bort it . It ran well then with about 20 holes in exhaust and the carbs stuck on with hermatite . Am going for another test run now.  Glowing pipes may be only stationary tuning o had no fan running and dark shed . New stainless aswell it's so disheartening watching them go dull with the heat 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Brian UK Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09 Jan 2020 at 12:03
Running for a length of time in a dark shed will often show the headers up glowing softly, especially if you are revving the engine.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote c13pep Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09 Jan 2020 at 12:04
My Monza will run for quite a long time in the workshop before it starts to overheat unlike my BMW which will only run for a few minutes before the pipes begin to glow.
When I rebuilt the Monza engine it was very poor at starting and it did cough and fart when it finally got going, however when I removed the engine to do some gearbox work I decided to check out the static timing while it was on the bench. Having thought the settings were spot on it quickly became apparent that they were not as I had the engine stood upright with the points and alternator facing the ceiling. It`s amazing how different things look when you get a proper close up eye on the points etc. I found that far from being spot on the settings were out on both the points but more importantly the static timing marks on the points plate were out. Following reassembly the engine fired into life at the first touch of the button and continues to do so regardless of outside temperature. I just wish I could take it out for a run but DVLA won`t let me yet

CHRIS
you can`t have any fun in a straight line

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Mike H View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Mike H Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09 Jan 2020 at 13:29
Originally posted by ben ben wrote:

Cheers well I binged a new condenser on it and it ran well I went for a ride . The points are wired up RH to RH.  It seemed fine  could it be firing on a wasted spark ? .I'll swap it round tomorrow and see what happens . It seem to run well the way it is tho?  


Do not swap around, because it's a 90º V twin the angles will be wrong. I presume it's like this photo below – yes indeed RH points does LH plug and vice versa – just looking at it I can follow the firing order if I imagine the camshaft turning at half crankshaft speed:

-


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Mike H Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09 Jan 2020 at 13:36
Originally posted by ben ben wrote:

New coils new condenses plugs leads ect . Think dyna is the answer?  Cheers 


There can be a bit of an issue with new condensers promptly failing, my theory is that because no modern vehicle uses them anymore the quality control has become non-existant (if modern cars were still using them there'd be floods of complaints from all the manufacturers, or they'd make their own)

Often, putting the old condenser(s) back on cured an ignition problem.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Mike H Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09 Jan 2020 at 13:40
Originally posted by ben ben wrote:

However 1 spring on the advance job seemed a little weak


This is likely normal, the ignition advance "curve" is actually two slopes, an initial steep slope, that's only one spring working (probably the "weak" one), then the second spring come into play to create a flatter slope from the mid rpm's upwards.



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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote ben Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09 Jan 2020 at 14:35
Well mine def rh to rh ect. And just got back from a good run it seems fine .
It only got 1 lobe on the cam right ? So dose it not waste a spark on the exhaust stroke ? And by having it switched would advance it or retard it by whatever it is set at no? Say 2°before TDC or after . If you get what I'm trying  to say ? Just because only one lobe on points cam has me thinking  this way  . Either way it starts hot or cold well . Runs well . So fingers crosseit'sIt's only its 3rd outing since I rolled it out the house from a rebuild .
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Brian UK Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09 Jan 2020 at 15:17
The lobe on the distributor is turning at half engine speed, so the points can only open once in two crankshaft revolutions. So no wasted spark.
Brian.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Paul-l Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09 Jan 2020 at 20:23
I'm glad I looked at this.... I just saw red and green wires and plugged them in as per boat light code

But do you mean LH points when seen from front does RH cyl when sat on bike?
In which case then they are on the same side aren't they?

Paul

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