guzziriders.org - moto guzzi forum Homepage
Forum Home Forum Home > Technical > Spine Frame
  New Posts New Posts RSS Feed - Oil foaming
  FAQ FAQ  Forum Search   Events   Register Register  Login Login

Oil foaming

 Post Reply Post Reply Page  12>
Author
Message
LarsW View Drop Down
Falcone
Falcone


Joined: 24 Nov 2015
Location: Norway
Status: Offline
Points: 55
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote LarsW Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Topic: Oil foaming
    Posted: 28 May 2018 at 14:00
Bike: Quota 1000 with 1100 Sport engine.

Since Britain's climate is considered rather humid compared to certain other country, it may be possible for you to answer this question: Have you noticed differences in the engine oil's ability to absorb and relieve itself of condensation? 
I ask because I recently had a strange experience with oil foaming, escaping to and overfilling the catch bottle and literally covering the rear of the bike with this grey foam. Twice! The oil was changed during winter storage and this happened without having been driving in rain. After changing to another common engine oil the problem disappeared totally.
I have noticed that some brands of oil are worse than other at leaving 'mayonnais' under the valve covers, so this properties may be connected. Or may I be enlightened?

Ciao
Lars W
Norway
Back to Top
BobV7 View Drop Down
Senior Member
Senior Member
Avatar

Joined: 20 Nov 2014
Location: W. Sussex
Status: Offline
Points: 2133
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote BobV7 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 28 May 2018 at 15:19
I don't think the UK climate actually has an effect on the oil, it's more a case of condensation forming from the difference in the air and engine temperatures when the engine is turned off. If you are experiencing the degree of condensation you state I would suspect that you getting a considerable temperature gradient between riding and storing your bike. All general motor oils are required to conform to strict international standards so there should be no difference between for instance, Castrol 10 w 40 oil sold in the UK and the one sold in Norway. However due to the differing climates the range and availability of certain products may not be the same.
V7 Classic Black and gold is the best colour
Back to Top
LarsW View Drop Down
Falcone
Falcone


Joined: 24 Nov 2015
Location: Norway
Status: Offline
Points: 55
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote LarsW Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01 Jun 2018 at 10:15
Thanks for your reply, Bob.
New findings:
When cleaning up the mess and checking for causes, I found an extra ball-valve hidden in the thick vent-hose on top of the crankcase. At some point during winter I have replaced the 'missing' ball-valve with one more.....
My working theory is now that two ball-valves have caused enough resistance to force the oil out the wrong way. The wrong way is of course the return pipe, and entering the breather box, it was blown out to the catch bottle, which was rather quickly filled.
Probably?

Ciao
Lars W
Norway
Back to Top
Ken-Guzzibear View Drop Down
Moderator Group
Moderator Group
Avatar

Joined: 13 May 2014
Location: Sileby Leics
Status: Offline
Points: 5415
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Ken-Guzzibear Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01 Jun 2018 at 11:42
2 valves would cause an issue I did find different oils caused different levels of "mayo type crap" in the breathers a real long motorway run clears it, I also find Synthetic oils seem more prone to this however some bikes are spec'd for the fully synth, others not.... The Cali Hydraulic valve bike is one with specific oil, The V11 Le Mans manual actually listed 20/40 as the oil BUT that is, I believe, out of date ....but you can always ask on the "Oilman" thread for a definitive answer from the experts at Opie Oils they are really good
The Older i Get, The Better I Was
Back to Top
smellybeard View Drop Down
Guzzino
Guzzino


Joined: 15 Oct 2018
Location: Dublin
Status: Offline
Points: 4
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote smellybeard Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 17 Jan 2019 at 17:59
Did you resolve this, Lars?

Back to Top
LarsW View Drop Down
Falcone
Falcone


Joined: 24 Nov 2015
Location: Norway
Status: Offline
Points: 55
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote LarsW Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 17 Jan 2019 at 18:18
Hello,
Thanks for the interest. 
Yes, the only error was the second ball valve in the vent-hose, as described. With the correct number of ball-valves (one...) the bike has run trouble-free more than 10000 km last season.

Ciao,
Lars W
Norway
Back to Top
smellybeard View Drop Down
Guzzino
Guzzino


Joined: 15 Oct 2018
Location: Dublin
Status: Offline
Points: 4
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote smellybeard Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 17 Jan 2019 at 19:55
I recently acquired an SP1000 sidecar outfit and on my first substantial cold and wet run had an attack of the killer mayonnaise. I've pulled the black breather box/bottle off and I see that a previous owner had removed the flap valve in the box and fitted a ball valve - in the thick vent line. Alas the ball valve appears to be rusted and jammed and filled with water and snot. 
Back to Top
Mike H View Drop Down
Senior Member
Senior Member
Avatar

Joined: 21 May 2014
Location: East Anglia
Status: Offline
Points: 6094
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Mike H Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 17 Jan 2019 at 20:00
Originally posted by smellybeard smellybeard wrote:

a previous owner had removed the flap valve in the box


Has been converted for a Le Mans collector box then?


"Chicken nuggets don't dance on a Tuesday."
Back to Top
smellybeard View Drop Down
Guzzino
Guzzino


Joined: 15 Oct 2018
Location: Dublin
Status: Offline
Points: 4
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote smellybeard Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 17 Jan 2019 at 20:16
The spigot for the spring and valve appears to be pushed back inside the 'original' box. The spring and valve are gone.

The bike is something of a bitsa. It appears to be a 1000SP engine and box in a Convert. The spoked wheels of the Convert have allowed a 15" rim to be fitted on the back and a 16" on the front.
Back to Top
sardineone View Drop Down
Falcone
Falcone
Avatar

Joined: 30 Oct 2018
Location: Indiana, USA
Status: Offline
Points: 84
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote sardineone Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 18 Jan 2019 at 00:42
Hi Lars, I might propose a cause to your problem.  Even my 86 Lemans 1000 has a check valve to the crankcase vent with a big ball bearing in it.  It goes to a hose to the stock air filter box and engine vacuum makes it work like an automotive PCV valve.  That way the crankcase is vented to engine vacuum and might do a better job purging crankcase moisture.  In the past I have only had a minor accumulation at my check valve once after many years and miles that increased my crankcase pressure until I found the problem and cleaned the valve with carb cleaner.  Good luck sorting out this problem. 

Edited by sardineone - 18 Jan 2019 at 00:47
George

One owner 86' Lemans 1000 (member of the family) / BMW R1200ST (current work horse)

You are what you have ridden!
Back to Top
Chris950s View Drop Down
Senior Member
Senior Member
Avatar

Joined: 03 Nov 2018
Location: Essex
Status: Offline
Points: 150
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Chris950s Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 18 Jan 2019 at 09:40
Originally posted by Mike H Mike H wrote:

Originally posted by smellybeard smellybeard wrote:

a previous owner had removed the flap valve in the box
 
Has been converted for a Le Mans collector box then?
Le Mans I and II have exactly the same breather box as the earlier loops and 750S except it also has two hoses on the top to collect the breathers from the rocker covers, this is common also to V7 Sport, 850T and 750 S3. Guzziology recommends disabling the internal valve if it becomes restricted. 
Later models had a check ball valve in the breather pipe and the breather ran to the airbox.
Not sure what Le Mans model you are referring to Mike?
Chris and Karen - Essex
2011 Stelvio NTX, 1974 950S (750S replica still in bits), 1966 Triumph T100SS 52 years young this year!
Back to Top
Chris950s View Drop Down
Senior Member
Senior Member
Avatar

Joined: 03 Nov 2018
Location: Essex
Status: Offline
Points: 150
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Chris950s Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 18 Jan 2019 at 09:45
1100 Sport used to vent into the frame? I think this is the same for the Quota 1000, if so it will not have a breather box at all.
Chris and Karen - Essex
2011 Stelvio NTX, 1974 950S (750S replica still in bits), 1966 Triumph T100SS 52 years young this year!
Back to Top
Brian UK View Drop Down
Moderator Group
Moderator Group
Avatar

Joined: 13 May 2014
Location: Surrey
Status: Online
Points: 9951
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Brian UK Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 18 Jan 2019 at 09:52
All models from the late 80s used the top frame tube as an oil seperator.
They still retained that ball valve though.
Brian.

Better 5 minutes late in this world than years early in the next.
Back to Top
Ken-Guzzibear View Drop Down
Moderator Group
Moderator Group
Avatar

Joined: 13 May 2014
Location: Sileby Leics
Status: Offline
Points: 5415
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote Ken-Guzzibear Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 18 Jan 2019 at 13:20
For what it is worth Guzziology recommends checking the ball valve regularly, depending on use, it seems big miles wear it low miles cause it to stick, but excess gunge in breathers swap it out. It also points out if you swap to K&N type filters with Le Mans breathers to disable the flapper and fit a new ball valve. He did mess about with breathers and has a fair bit to say conclusion the later EV one using the spine works but the older ones are actually as good ..... 
The Older i Get, The Better I Was
Back to Top
Chris950s View Drop Down
Senior Member
Senior Member
Avatar

Joined: 03 Nov 2018
Location: Essex
Status: Offline
Points: 150
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Chris950s Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 18 Jan 2019 at 15:13
Originally posted by Brian UK Brian UK wrote:

All models from the late 80s used the top frame tube as an oil seperator.
They still retained that ball valve though.
I totally agree Brian, but there was talk above of a breather box and its flap valve, however neither would have been on the OP's bike or on it's donor engine. 
Chris and Karen - Essex
2011 Stelvio NTX, 1974 950S (750S replica still in bits), 1966 Triumph T100SS 52 years young this year!
Back to Top
 Post Reply Post Reply Page  12>
  Share Topic   

Forum Jump Forum Permissions View Drop Down

Forum Software by Web Wiz Forums® version 12.00
Copyright ©2001-2018 Web Wiz Ltd.

This page was generated in 0.094 seconds.