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ranton_rambler View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote ranton_rambler Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 27 Oct 2017 at 13:24
Originally posted by iansoady iansoady wrote:

Could be, I've just never seen red oil before. Obviously led a sheltered life.

Red oil probably goes along with abbreviated front mudguard and wrapped exhausts to make a hipstermobile.
There's quite a few red coloured oils around. The engine/gearbox oil used by Honda dealers is red, as is the ATF used in automatic gearboxes and power steering systems. Probably other examples too.
We use blue grease at work. It's a swine to get out of a white shirt!
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Brian UK View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Brian UK Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 27 Oct 2017 at 13:27
Originally posted by iansoady iansoady wrote:

Whatever it is it didn't stop the gearbox whining......

It's being replaced by standard stuff with a dollop of Moly.
And I'll bet that doesn't stop the gearbox whining either. The damage has been done, mainly by previous owners running it only half full, because most had come out of the breather.
Brian.

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iansoady View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote iansoady Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 27 Oct 2017 at 17:02
You're probably right.
Ian
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Petros GR View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Petros GR Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04 Apr 2018 at 19:52
Hi,

I'd like your advice on engine oil, posting here, as this may interest other (I believe most) forum users.

Make: Moto Guzzi
Model: Griso 1100
Year: 2006
Engine type: (as most Guzzi) pushrod V2, wet sump, 2 valves/cylinder, flat tappets, dry clutch, separate gearbox
Engine displacement: 1064cc 
Performance modifications: none
Driving style: road

Viscosity needed is 10w60, "meeting or exceeding CCMC G-4 A.P.I. SG specifications"


Whats your proposal for a 10w60, that would be frienldy to my flat tappets and camshaft?
Lots of people, including some that I respect their opinion, insist on fully synthetic... 

Additional info: "Griso" is one of the air/oil cooled models. Oil is used as coolant for some spots, like the botom of the piston.
-For some 2005-06 models, one can find something else specified, either on lubricant makers sites, or even in the owners manual... That is due to factorys early publications, probably later (at 2006) found out that this was not correct, and issued a technical bulletin:
- This bulletin specifies 10w60 for "ideal pressure values even at very high engine temperature" for the 850-1100-1200 "Breva", "Griso", "Norge" Models. Same bulletin recomends 10w60 for 750 "breva" and "Nevada" and 1100 "California" (NOT the one with hydraulic tappets), alowing 20w50 as alternative for them. For the 1100 "California" with hydraulic tappets, 5w40 called as "compulsorily used"
- At the time (2006) Agip Racing 4T was the recomended one (I think API SL?). Later, (probably due to some agreement), as Agip changed to ENI, there was a "silent" change (at official service points), and the oil of choise was ENIs i-Ride "MotoGP" (API SG).

Now, this "MotoGP" is obsolete, "silently" replaced by ENIs i-Ride "Racing" thats API SL...

Not very confident that API SL is flat-tappet-friendly, searching for alternatives.


Edited by Petros GR - 04 Apr 2018 at 21:53
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oilman View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote oilman Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05 Apr 2018 at 08:59
If you want a 10w-60 with the highest ZDDP levels, go for an ester based oil, like the Fuchs Pro S, Millers CFS, Gulf Competition or Red Line.


They are around 1200-1400ppm ZDDP, so have plenty. They also have better quality basestocks than other oils, so there will be better all round protection than other oils.

Here is an article that will be going on our website soon.

ZDDP (Zinc dialkyldithiophosphate) is an additive that is common in oils. It acts as an anti-wear additive by providing a sacrificial layer over metallic surfaces, so the ZDDP wears away rather than the metal. Obviously, that is a good thing for oil to contain as it reduces the amount of wear to the engine. It is not the only important thing in the oil though and too much ZDDP can be problematic.

Many modern engines are specified to use lower ZDDP content oils as higher levels of ZDDP can affect spark plugs and emissions systems. Because of the reduced levels in some modern oils, people often think that modern oils are not suitable for their classic engines, but that is not really the case. 

The oils where the ZDDP levels are reduced meet the API SM and SN specifications and they tend to be thinner grades, which are not the kinds of oils that you would put in a classic vehicle anyway. Oils aimed at classic vehicles will tend to meet the API SL specification, or an earlier API specification, so will not have reduced ZDDP levels. 

Another thing that people do not consider is that when the ZDDP is removed, it is replaced with another anti-wear additive. Just removing an anti-wear additive without replacing it would just make an oil less effective. 

As well as replacing the ZDDP, the basestocks of oils have been improved over the years, giving better film strength and reducing the need for as high additive levels.

Often, the best choice for a high ZDDP content oil is an ester synthetic as many of them have high ZDDP levels and high quality basestocks, so the best all round protection. Sometimes, people are put off them as they do not want to use a synthetic in a classic engine, but synthetics are fine for many classic engines. If you are unsure about yours, just give us a call or send us an email.

I have not come across a problem with too little ZDDP in oils of the correct grade for a classic engine, when referring to reputable oil companies. With budget oils, cutting down the additive pack is a good way of saving production costs, so reducing the ZDDP levels is a way of saving money. With those oils, the basestock will be a lower quality as well. All oils are definitely not equal.

Cheers

Tim
Use the code GUZZIRIDERS and get 10% Club Discount
Email: sales@opieoils.co.uk
Phone: 01209 202944
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Brian UK View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Brian UK Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05 Apr 2018 at 09:26
Thank you. Very informative.
Might put that in it's own thread so that it's easily found.
Brian.

Better 5 minutes late in this world than years early in the next.
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