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oilman View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote oilman Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 29 Jun 2017 at 09:15
Originally posted by Dave P. Dave P. wrote:

During my search for a 20/50 with a high ZDDP content at a reasonable price I found a company called RYE OILS.They do a range of lubricants at the best prices I have seen. I ordered a 25 litre drum of 20/50 and a 5 litre can of EP90 gear oil yesterday and they arrived this afternoon post free.https://www.ryeoil.co.uk/shop/classic-20w50-engine-oil-2/ £54 for 25 litres seems good to me.
The engine oil has a ZDDP content of 1600 ppm which is good for old flat tappet engines.The EP90 is GL3/GL4 rated which unlike GL5 doesn't attack brass or bronze bushes (apparently)

I've not heard of that oil, but be a bit careful with bargains. It could be that you have a genuine bargain, but a lot of budget oils use recycled basestocks. Also, to save money, there is often less quality control in production, so the oil might not be the grade shown on the can. Like I said, I've not heard of that oil, so I don't know if it is any good, but be careful.

The GL4/GL5 thing that seems to be getting more and more well known is based on out of date information. Back in the 1970s, when GL5 oils were first introduced, it was very quickly realised that the additives attacked yellow metals. That was no good to the oil manufacturer or user, so the additive pack was soon changed (by reputable oil companies) so that they use the same additives as in a GL4 oil, but in a higher concentration. That means that GL5 oils from reputable companies will not attack brass synchros. I don't know if that is the case with oils from companies that we don't deal with though.

There are certain GL5 oils that are better as diff oils as they are too slippery for synchros, but they are not attacking the brass. 

Cheers

Tim


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Dave P. View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote Dave P. Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 29 Jun 2017 at 09:36
Interesting.I'm always keen to know more about the oil available for my old bikes but one is at the mercy of often conflicting information from oil companies and others, published on the web.The average punter like me has no way of establishing which oil is better than which.Would it be reasonable to assume that well-known brands are more expensive in part because one is paying for the name?
I'd assumed,wrongly perhaps,that all oils sold have to comply with industry standards regarding viscosity and general quality.
I've been looking for cheaper oils because of the recent increase in oil prices,if not at the wells then certainly at the counter.

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1970 T120 Bonnie. 2009 500 Bullet.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote oilman Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 29 Jun 2017 at 09:54
Hi

It is a tricky one, as it's not an oil I know, I do not know if that is a recycled oil or about it's quality control. However, for £2 a litre (and I assume they have to be making profit in there somewhere), I would not expect the best oil. 

Here's part of an article I did, the rest relates to synthetics.

Another way of affecting the price of an oil is to alter the additive package. 


The additive pack is a very important part of the oil and can greatly affect the oils properties, but it can be reduced in quality or quantity to reduce the production costs. That can mean that the oil will not last as long or work as well.

Quality control affects the price and quality, the more samples are tested during production, the more it costs, but the more likely it is to be what it says on the label. Some cheap oils have been found to be well out of grade (one of the worst I've heard of was something that was supposed to be a 5w-40 was actually a 20w-40).

Paying for the name is one way of looking at it, the other way is reassurance due to a trusted brand. Yes, Castrol, Shell and Mobil can be expensive, but everyone knows those brands and very few people have ever had problems with them. Some of the smaller brands are less well known and people don't know how good their products will be. That's not to say they won't be fine, but paying an extra few quid for peace of mind can be worth it.

Actual manufacturer approvals can cost a lot of money and that adds to the price of an oil, so a lot of manufacturers sell oils as 'meets the requirements of XXXX' or 'Can be used where XXXX is specified'. You then have to trust the oil manufacturer that the oil is actually suitable for the application, rather than the oil being approved. Don't risk that with cars under warranty, pretty much all manufacturers will void a warranty if the wrong oil is used. Some dealerships are testing the oil before they look at engine issues now, as if the oil is incorrect, they may be able to get out of doing the work.

Cheers

Tim
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Dave P. View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Dave P. Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 29 Jun 2017 at 11:44
A tricky one indeed.At the price I've paid, I shall shorten the oil change intervals and hope for the best.If I experience problems I shall make a full confession.The first thing to do is to carry out a compression test and tappet clearance measurement and look out for accelerated wear over the next few thousand miles.An oil pressure check is warranted too.
Thanks for the input.The link to your article on additive packs didn't work by the way and I would like to read it.

TO LIVE OUTSIDE THE LAW YOU MUST BE HONEST.

1971 V7 Special. 1972 850GT.
1970 T120 Bonnie. 2009 500 Bullet.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote oilman Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 29 Jun 2017 at 11:51
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote agriff Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 29 Sep 2017 at 17:18
I have a few litres of Comma semi synthetic 75-90 gear oil I bought from Opie oils a couple of years ago when I had a 1150 GS.
Just bought a 1100 Griso with no service history so want to start from scratch. Do you think this will be ok to use?

cheers
Griff
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote ranton_rambler Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 30 Sep 2017 at 10:56
Originally posted by agriff agriff wrote:

I have a few litres of Comma semi synthetic 75-90 gear oil I bought from Opie oils a couple of years ago when I had a 1150 GS.
Just bought a 1100 Griso with no service history so want to start from scratch. Do you think this will be ok to use?

cheers
Griff
I've just put some Castrol 75W-90 synthetic in both gearbox and bevel box of my loop. I think you'll be OK but check recommendations in handbook. I think the small block bevel uses 85W-140 but not sure about modern big blocks.
For the older bikes the handbook says to use molybdenum additive in the bevel box. A lot of people also put it in the gearbox, although I don't personally.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote agriff Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03 Oct 2017 at 21:47
Thanks for the reply RantonThumbs Up

 Just read this on grisoghetto:

"one note on the gear box oil, the factory specified an odd grade to keep synthetics out of it. The only reason I mention this is I have a failed breva box(bearing cages), that has polymidie bearing cages in it. The synthetic oil used in it destroyed the integrity of the poly bearing cages....Poly bearing cages can be far superior to steel (inferior to bronze)... but they are sensitive to the correct lubricant base.

As far as I know Guzzi stopped using the poly cage bearings, a few years ago and only used them for a short peroid but I know there are Brevas, 2V grisos, and calis with them. I don't know if any 8V machines got a poly cage box. I have seen a few people complain that the poly cage bearings were Guzzi being cheap, but there are some reliability improvements to be had with poly cages...some of the seals in the box were not fully synthetic safe at the time either."

Could probably find an argument for and against anythingConfused. Guess I'll go ahead and use the semi synth 75 90
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Mike H Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04 Oct 2017 at 11:16
That is not uninteresting ...
"Chicken nuggets don't dance on a Tuesday."
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote ranton_rambler Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04 Oct 2017 at 12:57
Can't comment on plastic caged bearings - I don't think my 70's bikes have them. I did read something about sticking to GL4 rather than GL5, which I think was related to the GL5 additives attacking bronze and other yellow metals. I think the conclusion was that modern GL5 additive packs are OK.
Anyway, my'72 loop was got GL4/GL5 in now. Can't remember what's in the Spada.
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