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Jim Mac View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Jim Mac Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Topic: Norge power failure
    Posted: 09 Oct 2017 at 09:30
Heading to work this morning and bike starts to stutter and fart all over the place.

ABS warninng light cone on then dashboard lights fail but I can still see the speedo etc.   It gets worse and i turn to get it home but it dies.

Sitting at road side trying to get it to start but won't even turn over, first thought is dead battery.

I called out Peter Jones breakdown service to get it home and they sent an AA patrolman who confirmed dead battery bur then said his diagnostic's showed an alternator fault

What are the 'easy' checks for an alternator   ha ha ha he laughs to himself hysterically

Edited by Jim Mac - 09 Oct 2017 at 09:39
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Brian UK Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09 Oct 2017 at 14:38
Dead battery confirmed?
Have a look at the topic I started on the alternator wiring. Pound to a penny it's a fault in the wiring, but check the 40A fuse, if that has blown then you get no charge.
Also on the later Stelvios, and possibly the later Norge, one of the light relays is in the charge control circuit for some reason, and if that fails you get no charge either.
 
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Jim Mac View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Jim Mac Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09 Oct 2017 at 15:00
Dead battery as in not enough power to do anything other than light the dash led,  it is an Odessey so I am hoping that it will live again.  I checked the 40 amp straight away - it is fine.  i will check the rest tonight.   hoping as always for an easy fix
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Mike H Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09 Oct 2017 at 16:22
Charge battery, put on bike, get it started, put a Voltmeter on, does it charge when revved?

If answer = "no", alternator  = "FUBAR"...

Or, bad wiring. Loose / corroded / melted connectors etc. etc.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Brian UK Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09 Oct 2017 at 17:07
The main connector on the back of the alternator has been known to give problems, badly crimped, thus getting hot and eventually going open circuit.
But get that battery on charge.
 
On the Stelvio and Griso, and possibly on your late Norge, the alternator is turned on via the light logic relay, if that fails, no charge. When the battery is charged up, check all the lighting works correctly, but also check the voltage across the battery to see if it's charging as Mike said. You should get best part of 14v even at tickover on the Norge, engine running.
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Jim Mac View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Jim Mac Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09 Oct 2017 at 17:37
I am waiting on battery to charge up. The AA man jumped started it and checked power from alternator, it was reading 11.4v at 3000 rpm
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Jim Mac View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Jim Mac Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09 Oct 2017 at 17:40
Which relay is the light logic ?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Ken-Guzzibear Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09 Oct 2017 at 18:57
for an agm battery 11.4V is way too low ought to be above 14V
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Dave P. Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09 Oct 2017 at 19:24
Originally posted by Ken-Guzzibear Ken-Guzzibear wrote:

for an agm battery 11.4V is way too low ought to be above 14V


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Brian UK Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09 Oct 2017 at 22:57
11.4v is way too low for any battery. It means no charge is going in at all.
I don't know which relay Jim, I can't find a circuit diagram for the 8 valve Norge.
 
But do your lights all work as they should? If so then you can exclude that.
 
On my earlier Norge, tracing the wire from that 40A fuse I found another inline connector which was showing signs of considerable heat, and cleaning that up, and closing the sprung part of the connector up to make a better connection did help. I ended up putting a new wire from the alternator main terminal to the battery positive. That immediately produced 14.2V at the battery.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Brian UK Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10 Oct 2017 at 09:31
Have you donated to Guzzitech Jim? If so you can download the wiring diagram from there which will confirm the presence of this light logic relay, and show you the wire colours to help identify it.
 
I assume the charge warning light didn't come on earlier? That would suggest a broken belt.
 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Jim Mac Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10 Oct 2017 at 10:57
i have donated in the past but not this current year i think.  i got a nice reply from Tod which basically thanked me for my donation of £15 but informed me it was not enough to be a recognised donator,  weird.

it all happened very quickly, I didnt see a charging light on.   there isnt enough power in the battery to start the bike so i cant see dipped or full lights

 i have left the battery on charge and will check when i get back home.  if it is stuffed i will take the battery out of the T5 and try that so that i can check lights



Edited by Jim Mac - 10 Oct 2017 at 11:01
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Jim Mac Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10 Oct 2017 at 18:47
right, got home to a fully charged battery. bike started first push of button, small side lights only . no dipped or full beam, meter reading on battery shows 11.6 i have checked every fuse i can find,  is there a hidden one somewhere  ?  none of the fuses in beside the battery have blown

i found the logic relay, a previous post by Brian said to look at left hand side of the dash - and there it was under the fairing.  took it off, cleaned the connections put it back,  no luck.  swapped it for another relay, no luck.  so it is either not the relay or the one i swapped it for is knacked.




Edited by Jim Mac - 10 Oct 2017 at 19:11
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Brian UK Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10 Oct 2017 at 21:42
The fact that the lights are not functioning does suggest the relay or associated wiring.
 
Can you tell from the relay wiring which two wires are the main power, ie. not the coil energising ones? If so you could try bridging between them to see if that brings everything back.
 
From what I read on Guzzitech, there are two fuses involved with that relay, a 20A one in the power side and a 15A one on the energising side, so either would stop it working. Why do they have to make it so complicated? Just seen the wiring diagram posted there by Canuck, and pinched it. Trying to make sense of it.
There are two 5 pin relays associated with the lights, the light logic and the hi/low beam one. Are you sure you pulled the right one?
The logic relay has Black, Yellow/Blue, Green/White, Green and Brown/Black wires connected to it. To make everything work you need power (12V) on the Black wire.
 
Fuse A (15A) if blown would stop the relay from operating. Then there is a 20A fuse (fuse 3 on that diagram) which has a Green/White and Green/Red wire at each end, and is paired to another 20A fuse which is for the ABS.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Brian UK Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10 Oct 2017 at 21:43
Though I doubt it's responsible, have you checked the drive belt is OK?
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