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Norge 1200: Start-up Remote Error DC V DC ECU 44

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Double-f Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 25 Nov 2017 at 15:44
I am left with the ECU to check.  Being searching in-country for it. Atleast to lend for the immediate time to eliminate the ECU from the puzzle. No doubt something is wrong in there.

And Johnno I tried out your ideas, it still comes down to same result.

I also did a good check to all the loops to Pin17, as far as to the lambda sensor, the flow is consistent.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Double-f Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 25 Nov 2017 at 21:25
Just on a different note, could there be something responsible for only a one-time startup within a specific period.

Initiated 2 startups with a space of like 3hrs interval, and both responded to startup at the button.

The 2nd I used the kill switch before the bike primes... (just to be sure it's not a "start only when cold" condition), tried again, error out.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Brian UK Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 25 Nov 2017 at 21:45
That's why I asked about the age of the battery.
 
If a battery is not in top condition and gets a discharge, it will drop the voltage such that another attempt to start means the voltage has dropped too much. Left for a few hours and the battery can recover, meaning it then starts OK.
 
There is a threshold below which the ECU will not start the bike, but I think it's around the 10v point. You always seem to get higher than that, but a poor connection somewhere might make the ECU think the volts are lower.
On the dash display you can get a reading of the voltage. It would be interesting to see if that is close to what you get with a meter across the battery.
 
I have known a no start situation with low volts applied to the ECU, but nobody has ever said the error 44 came up too.
Brian.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote BerG Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 26 Nov 2017 at 09:26
Hello !

2 years ago I could not start my Norge during a long one-day trip in very hot weather.
I checked the fuses but oberlooked that the strater-relay fuse wes blown. The bike started by pushing it  with some help.
Once at home I found the blown fuse. After searching one french Guzzi forum, I discovered that the wiring of the starter-relay is far too weak. It is even known by Guzzi  which recommend replacing the positive wire supplying the solenoid by a thicker 2.5mm2 wire. Though it works,  this is actually  not perfect because then you stick with the original thin wire  at the other segment of the line. Then I installed an additional relay, commanded by the wire initially connected to the solenoid and the new relay switches the current in a line going directly from the battery to the solenoid, including its own 20A fuse, and fully made from 2.5mm2 wires.

It works well, but anyways, if the ECU decides that your battery is too weak, it will still cancel the command of the starter. You still can start the bike if the additional relay installed permits to easily disconnect the  wire going to the solenoid and you can manually contact it with the battery positive.

It is known that the ECU underestimates the voltage of the battery : look at its indication on the dashboard and measure it with a voltmeter and you will find a difference. Also you will see that any positive voltage supplied by the ECU (which tries to control everything) is much lower than the battery voltage: about 1.4V is lost in the system, probably some voltage drops in diodes or whatever. In addition, the ECU takes its mass from a wire that is connected ... to one of the screws fixing the ECU itself. Knowing  that the ECU is mounted with silent-blocks, I have a doubt that it is perfectly grounded: rubber is not the best conductor !

I am myself in trouble since the engine stopped after a long station in the rain and after 2 months I still don't solve the breakdown. Everything is fine according to the dashboard and Guzzidiag does not give any hint of a problem. Might be a sensor or the electrical harness.

As a whole  the electrical design of this otherwise excellent bike (once you change the rear shock spring) is really a crap. The bike is known to be liable to many idiotic breakdowns. Of course you will not want change an ECU that is actually working (800€).

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Brian UK Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 26 Nov 2017 at 10:14
I wish my French was as good as your English.
 
We have an alternative solution to the poor wiring of the start relay, see our topic "Click no crank" on the Frequently asked questions section.
 
Yes it is well known that the voltage seen by the ECU is often lower than what is measured at the battery, most problems on these bikes are caused by poor connections somewhere.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote red leader one Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 26 Nov 2017 at 10:49
I presume we know about this.
 It's a little old I think.
http://www.guzzitech.com/forums/threads/ecu-error-44.17953/
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Brian UK Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 26 Nov 2017 at 10:53
Did you look at who wrote it?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote red leader one Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 26 Nov 2017 at 10:54
First lesson Glasshopper.

Read all the postLOL
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote red leader one Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 26 Nov 2017 at 11:05
https://www.mgcn.nl/forum/index.php?showtopic=15620

I know this is a Griso but if we  stand back and look for something silly ie it turns out to be a faulty indicator farting.
It may be staring us in the face as it were but you can't see it..(worrying at the back of our minds about £800 quid for a new ECU)
Do you get my drift.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Dave P. Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 26 Nov 2017 at 15:57
Before I ask my question I ask y'all to excuse my ignorance.I've never owned a bike equipped with an ECU and know nothing about them.Erm,I don't even know what ECU stands for
I thought that the purpose these "error codes" was to inform the user of the precise nature of the problem currently being experienced.Is this not the case? Is there not an index of codes which can be referred to when one pops up on the screen? I am a dinosaur so can some kind person please explain to me what's going on. Thank you.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Brian UK Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 26 Nov 2017 at 16:34
You are perfectly correct Dave, the error codes are supposed to inform of the precise nature of the fault. Again the Guzzi sense of humour strikes. The heading to this topic is what the error code says, interpreting the precise meaning is a different matter. The fault codes are listed in the workshop manual, but we have a copy on this forum. http://guzziriders.org/error-codes-carc-models_topic157.html
We believe it means low or no volts at the start relay. We have to assume that is on the relay coil, not contact, as there is no way to measure the volts on the contact, but there is a direct connection between the relay coil pos. and the ECU (Engine or Electronic Control Unit?).
But this has been measured in the fault condition and found to be 12.8v.
 
The real problem is we don't know the internal connections of the ECU.
Have you looked at the Norge wiring diagram? The start relay is item 3. There is 12.8v on pin 1 (red/black) and the ECU should put an earth on pin 2 (orange/grey?). But it's not.


Edited by Brian UK - 26 Nov 2017 at 17:08
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote red leader one Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 26 Nov 2017 at 16:40



I'm 19th century.


Edited by red leader one - 26 Nov 2017 at 19:43
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Dave P. Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 26 Nov 2017 at 16:50
Thanks for that Brian.I took a look at the Norge wiring diagram,lots of potential for fun and games there!

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Brian UK Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 26 Nov 2017 at 17:04
Originally posted by red leader one red leader one wrote:

http://guzzitek.org/documents/injection/ServiceCodes_rev00.pdf

http://www.v11lemans.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=12550

http://autorepairmagz.com/search/moto+guzzi+diagnostic+codes

Like this/
I'm 19th century.
The first says file not found, the second is about a totally different ECU, and the third is a copy of what we already have on the forum.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Double-f Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 26 Nov 2017 at 17:11
Originally posted by Brian UK Brian UK wrote:

That's why I asked about the age of the battery.
 
If a battery is not in top condition and gets a discharge, it will drop the voltage such that another attempt to start means the voltage has dropped too much. Left for a few hours and the battery can recover, meaning it then starts OK.
 
There is a threshold below which the ECU will not start the bike, but I think it's around the 10v point. You always seem to get higher than that, but a poor connection somewhere might make the ECU think the volts are lower.
On the dash display you can get a reading of the voltage. It would be interesting to see if that is close to what you get with a meter across the battery.
 
I have known a no start situation with low volts applied to the ECU, but nobody has ever said the error 44 came up too.


Before first start:
Battery: 13.0V
Dash: 12.8V

On startup, battery drops to 10/11V, ramps up to +13.4V in such with charger voltage
Dash: +13.4V

Second start. No click no crank. Error. Measurements does not differ from "before first start" condition.

Ran a push button from earth to Pin2. Press button, immediate start. Voltage across Pin2 tended to 0V,  as starter motor takes over.
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