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More electrical advice needed

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Brian UK View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Brian UK Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 18 Mar 2018 at 22:06
If Gutsibits are selling an LED replacement for the charge warning light fitted to any bike with the Bosch alternator, they are clearly out of order.
 
You could wire the correct bulb in there, but it might mean the LED won't work. The correct bulb is a 12v 2.2W, not the smaller 1.2W fitted to the other idiot lights.
 
But instead of a bulb, wire a 60 ohm 2 Watt resistor in parallel with the LED. But again this might affect the LED lighting. 60 is the theoretical size, in practice you would probably find only a 56 or 62 ohm one.
 
For all the later permanent magnet alternators, the LED conversion would be fine. Gutsibits should be aware of this difference.
Brian.

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Keef Mayhem View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Keef Mayhem Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 19 Mar 2018 at 00:58
I recently fitted one of Gutsibits LED instrument panels to a Mille GT, I would have simply added a resistor at the rectifier end of the charge light circuit but when I checked it it already had a factory fitted one fitted, I've had a look at my LM4 & LM5 and they also have a factory fitted resistor, 80 ohms 2W and its simply potted in a peice of sleeving,
Its shown as Item 47 on this wiring diagram so easily added to your G5 without messing about at the clocks end :)

http://www.thisoldtractor.com/guzzi007/schematics/1990_LM_V.gif

http://www.thisoldtractor.com/guzzi007/schematics/1978_G5.gif




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Brian UK View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Brian UK Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 19 Mar 2018 at 08:18
Sounds like that is the simple solution.
Brian.

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Ken-Guzzibear View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Ken-Guzzibear Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 19 Mar 2018 at 12:17
Thing is why, in 26 yrs and oodles of miles the only idiot light bulb I ever replaced was the lights on as my sidelights are on when running as I have fitted marker lights ......so it has been onfor a very long time these bulbs are easily available as same ones are used in many car idiot lights ....if I ever go to a car recycle place at work or for car parts I always ask for some blade fuses and a selection of bulbs, they are always better quality and every yard has been way better bought a German car replacement bulb/fuse set in a little box paid £2.50 heck 1 headlamp bulb costs way more ...box had 2 different headlamp bulbs H1,H4,H7 tail/stop the single tail and the smaller type tail lamp 3x bayonet bulbs and a festoon bulb 5 fuses ....
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote ageingroover62 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 19 Mar 2018 at 15:27
Hi All
As promised i emailed Gutsibits re this problem and enc a reply from Guy "Hi Dave

Thank you for your email- Ed has one of these clock surround kits on his own machine which has the Bosch system and the charging light works fine. The LED bulbs already have a resistor fitted."

Kind regards

Guy
So im now even more confused, i like th idea of placing a resistor in the ign circuit near the rectifier if it was not for the fact that although i can probably identify the rectifier i have no idea which connection would be the one to connect to.
Im sure the collective wisdom on here will be able to enlighten me
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote ageingroover62 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 19 Mar 2018 at 15:30
As i keep saying if the orginal bulb holders had been in good condition i would not have embarked upon this led saga but they are KNACKERED so the only other choice was to but a complete replacement panel the cheapest of which with postage was the best part of £100
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Mike H View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Mike H Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 19 Mar 2018 at 15:39
Easy way to find out, if bike won't charge, you need the resistor that Brian was talking about.

If required, needs to connect between the rectifier where the wire for the charge light is, (blue?) and the other end to anything that is 'live' when ignition is turned on.

HTH (?)


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Brian UK View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Brian UK Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 19 Mar 2018 at 17:14
It seems there are two different systems, those which use the charge warning light to start up the alternator and those which use a resister on the board. The latter don't need the large charge warning light.
 
Were all the LEDs the same (apart from colour)? If they were then the one for the charge warning light will not have the parallel resistor we spoke of. Possibly Ed's system uses the resistor already.
 
As Mike says, see if it charges. If it doesn't we need to talk you through adding the resistor.
Brian.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote ageingroover62 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 19 Mar 2018 at 17:37
That sound great Brian it may take a few days as im flat ou most of this week so will get back asap
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Keef Mayhem Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 19 Mar 2018 at 18:16
Don't worry about the LED at all just let it do its lighting up thing and simply add the extra resistor, my bikes have both the bulb and resistor it does no harm at all.
 The resistor goes between a switched fused feed off the fuse board and terminal 61 on the rectifier
as shown in the wiring diagrams above, my bikes simpy use a piggy back spade to enable 2 wires to be connected to the terminal although I would quite happily solder 2 wires into the  the same spade if I didn't have one


The rectifier teminals are all shown here in the first pic
http://www.thisoldtractor.com/moto_guzzi_tonti_wiring_harness_install_rectifier_-diode_board-_connections.html

I was in the pub with Guy last week, I know him quite well :)
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Edited by Keef Mayhem - 19 Mar 2018 at 18:22
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote DavieL Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 19 Mar 2018 at 22:30
If you have a single warning light for your indicators an LED wont work as its a bi-directional device and typically the current flows in both directions through the warning bulb, depending on whether you operate the left or the right indicator. You can fix this with a bit of jigery pokery with the wiring. I found this out by trial and error Smile
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Keef Mayhem Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 20 Mar 2018 at 01:18
Thought I'd check exactly what resistor value is used by Guzzi on my bikes
Both have a 69 ohm resistor as well as the original charge bulb
http://www.flickr.com/photos/124005478@N05/40201938654/in/dateposted-public/
http://www.flickr.com/photos/124005478@N05/27039381458/in/dateposted-public/

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Brian UK View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Brian UK Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 20 Mar 2018 at 08:33
Well the 2.2W charge bulb equates to a 60 ohm resistor, possibly with that resistor fitted they use a lower wattage (and less bright) bulb. But assuming the bulb and resistor are both in the charge circuit, they are two parallel resistors in effect, so the overall resistance will be lower.
Thus with an LED fitted (which has very high resistance), I would suggest using a 56 ohm 2W resistor.
Brian.

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Mike H View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Mike H Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 20 Mar 2018 at 12:33
Originally posted by Keef Mayhem Keef Mayhem wrote:

Thought I'd check exactly what resistor value is used by Guzzi on my bikes
Both have a 69 ohm resistor as well as the original charge bulb

Value is 68 Ohms then.

Or if you follow Brian's advice, will have to be 62 Ohms.

Due to the standardised resistance values scales for resistors, the only available values will be 62 or 68. The problem I usually find is finding a high power resistor in the exact values I want, even for those standard ones. Ouch

FYI, I have successfully done this with a 100 Ohms resistor, which is slightly less resistance than a lit 1.2W bulb.

HTH

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Brian UK View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Brian UK Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 20 Mar 2018 at 14:03
But the norm is to use a higher wattage bulb for the charge light, the higher current will get the alternator started quicker. Hence using something around 56 & 62 ohms.
Brian.

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