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Mk1 or MK2 Identification

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HUMPHRIES View Drop Down
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    Posted: 20 Aug 2018 at 17:53
Hi All,

Looking for some advice here, Ive recently inherited a Motoguzzi LeMans 850. 

It seems to have the Mk1 fairing, Lights, Dash instruments, there is no II on the side panel under the letters Le Mans 850. BUT the VIN numbers VE 17685 appear to be outside of the numbers stated for a MK1. 

For some background, this is a relative bike who was a very keen motorcyclist and was most definitely  not the type of person to make a bike appear to be something it isnt.

So my question is, Could this possibly be a MK1? Or Did some Mk2 Models come dressed as Mk1s? Or are the Motoguzzi numbers not 100% correct? 

Any input would be very much appreciated. I can supply pictures of Said bike If that would be helppful.


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Barry View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Barry Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 20 Aug 2018 at 18:23
This might be helpful: http://www.thisoldtractor.com/guzzitech.dk/gb_en_technical_moto-guzzi-frame-numbers.htm

It's very common for a MKII to be Lemonised to look like a MKI - and for other models to be similarly used to create a replica.

Edit: Common because it's popular - I have an 850T that spent some of it's life in 'Le Mans' trim - not attempting in any way to deceive, but a) because it's such a classic look, and b) relatively easy to convert any Tonti-framed Guzzi to look like that.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote HUMPHRIES Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 20 Aug 2018 at 19:05
Hi Barry 

Yeah I've taken a look at that website. to be very honest I don't think this person would have lemonised this bike. He had a quite a collection in his garage from old classics to some very collectible moderns all in complete standard form. If he wanted a mk1 he would have bought one I believe. Its very bizarre.
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Barry View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Barry Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 20 Aug 2018 at 19:30
Well, like I said, it's not necessarily about deceit - more the fact that it's just such a classic look.

Pop some photos up here and there are Le Mans owners and other experienced eyes that might spot a few clues (there are other clues, some of which are more visible than others!)
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote HUMPHRIES Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 20 Aug 2018 at 19:32
Thanks Barry. Il get some photos up asap
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Jerry atric Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 20 Aug 2018 at 20:09
Welcome to the forum. Whichever one it is its a very nice bike to have.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Oldrat Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 20 Aug 2018 at 20:23
welcome onboard

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Often one of the last things to get converted (if at all) is the tank, so it’s often an easy way to tell from a distance.  The Mk 1 has a twist petrol cap showing, the mk 2 has a flap over it.

Easily sorted if you post pics.

If it has a round tail light, I’ll buy the bike Wink

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Dukedesmo Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 21 Aug 2018 at 09:24
I have an LM2 in LM1 'guise. Not trying to fool anyone, I just prefer the look. 

I still have the 'II' badges on the sides but, and these could be changed if you really wanted to make it look authentic some major differences are; the fuel tank, the forks which are wider spaced, thicker and that have the calipers on the other side (forward facing for LM1, rearward for LM2) plus some minor stuff like indicators etc.

Now it may even be possible to simply 'reverse' the forks to get the calipers at the front? but the spacing and thickness would require new forks & yokes which along with the tank would be a costly conversion with the parts now being difficult to source.

I would assume that all LM1 parts (including the round tail light) could easily be fitted to a newer bike because underneath the trim they are essentially the same but personally I prefer the improvements such as the fork/brake setup on the LM2 for the very (technical) reasons they were introduced and wouldn't want to downgrade to the older style.

I'm sure there are other more minor differences that a true enthusiast would know of. 

By the way I still have all the original LM2 parts for mine (including the rubber brake lines dated 1979) and so can easily go back to original if I want to.   Thumbs Up
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote HUMPHRIES Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 21 Aug 2018 at 09:41
Thanks for all the iput guys, I will post some photos shortly and hopefully come to a conclusion :)
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote BondEquipe Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 21 Aug 2018 at 11:11
Isn't it said that there are far more Mk 1s (acknowledging that they weren't called Mk1 till the introduction of the Mk2) on the road now than ever left the factory? Similar case with Jotas.
Stephen
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote HUMPHRIES Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 21 Aug 2018 at 20:41
Hi all, 

Quick update.  We have found the insurance document and the original receipt from when the bike was new.

It is a Mk1!! So the Motoguzzi Numbering system is all to put! 

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Brian UK Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 21 Aug 2018 at 21:18
Nothing new there, they always have been a bit lax in that area.
Brian.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Zambuck Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02 Sep 2018 at 20:16
That receipt will need to kept really safe, provenance and all
1000 Le Mans II Agostini
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote KIWIMIKE Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05 Sep 2018 at 23:03
Glad to hear you've located a sales receipt and the insurance document. Documentation or lack of it can be a real headache.
 
Still love to see some photos of the Le Mans if you're able to post some.
 
There's been lots of info posted up about this or that being introduced after engine number ***** or after frame number ***** Trying to give an exact number for an Italian manufacturer doing something is going against their national identity!
 
It's a bit like that Italian expert's opinion on an old Top Gear programme:
Wearing seata belts?!? Itsa lika betting against yourself!
 
Someone once said Italian production is a 3 step process.....three steps to what's on the nearest shelf!
Mike
1979 850 Le Mans Mk2
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1981 850 Le Mans Mk2
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HUMPHRIES View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote HUMPHRIES Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06 Sep 2018 at 09:27
I will post some photos soon, in fact It may well soon be going up for sale If anybody might be interested.

Basically It was my uncles bike who sadly is no longer with us, He had the bike from new and it was maintained meticulously 


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