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LM1 Bevel box

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TheWrongTrousers View Drop Down
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    Posted: 07 Jan 2019 at 18:12
Not had the bike long, and am going over it from top to bottom to make it safe and sound.  God knows what lurks within the bevel box. Should I take it off and clean it out or should I just give it a top up when needed and leave well alone. There are no bad noises coming from within so maybe I should not go looking for problems when there are none. 

Any views ?
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rapheal View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote rapheal Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07 Jan 2019 at 18:55
Drain and replace the lubricant, and see if their are any metal particles or water floating in the oil
if so it might be better to let baldrick sort it for you
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote sardineone Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07 Jan 2019 at 20:41
Just a heads up.  I've been using API GL-5 synthetic in my Lemans transmission & rear end for years.  Seemed to have metal in the oil change most times.  Recently found out many GL-5 oils are not compatible to yellow metals (like bronze, brass) that might explain the metal in my oil changes.  I found in my area that Royal Purple states on the bottle that it is yellow metal compatible.  FYI, Mobil 1 is NOTExclamation  Your oil in Europe may be different, but I just wanted to bring up the subject.
 
 
A footnote: I noticed an immediate difference in rolling resistance when I switched to synthetic gear oil years ago BTW.
George

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote kfz Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08 Jan 2019 at 08:57
The beval boxes nevergo wrong.  You will need to remove the swingarm to check the UJ and grease up the shaft, once the beval box is free you can remove the pinion as its held in by the swingarm bolts so you can inspect it.  If it looks good (it will be) then just pop it back in and forget.  Change the oil every other year or 6K whatever first, I wound bother with Moly additive as the bike is old and modern oils dont need it anyway.

Kev
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote TheWrongTrousers Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08 Jan 2019 at 09:30
Thanks all for your helpful replies. I am inclined to leave well alone and just change the oil. Does anyone disagree with what Kev says about Moly additives ? Are they a thing of the past ?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Brian UK Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08 Jan 2019 at 09:46
I wouldn't say bevel boxes never go wrong. But they are very reliable unless there has been a lubrication problem.

Modern oils are superior to those around when Guzzi were designing the bevel box. Having said that, adding Moly won't do any harm, though it's unclear whether it will actually do any good either.
Brian.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote kfz Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08 Jan 2019 at 10:35
Dont use the level plug either, very easy to strip the thread.  just measure out 250ml and poor it in.  Job done. I would recomend a good quality GL-4 oil like Rock Oil.

Kev
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote rapheal Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08 Jan 2019 at 19:10
if you dont use the motorcycle very much, or do short journeys you may well find emulsion in the oil, that in turn will cause damage to the bearings
I have my oil changed each year on the service on the basis oil cheap-bearings expensive

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote kfz Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08 Jan 2019 at 19:18
Originally posted by rapheal rapheal wrote:

if you dont use the motorcycle very much, or do short journeys you may well find emulsion in the oil, that in turn will cause damage to the bearings
I have my oil changed each year on the service on the basis oil cheap-bearings expensive


Not in the bevel box, since there is no source of water. Change it every year thats fine, not like its a big deal only holds an eggcup. I guess the only danger is stripping the drain plug.

Kev
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote rapheal Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08 Jan 2019 at 20:07
Originally posted by kfz kfz wrote:

Originally posted by rapheal rapheal wrote:

if you dont use the motorcycle very much, or do short journeys you may well find emulsion in the oil, that in turn will cause damage to the bearings
I have my oil changed each year on the service on the basis oil cheap-bearings expensive


Not in the bevel box, since there is no source of water. Change it every year thats fine, not like its a big deal only holds an eggcup. I guess the only danger is stripping the drain plug.

Kev
odd that as Antonio my engineer showed me some corrosion in a bevel box, if the early ones are like the later small block ones and have a breather, then moisture can get in, if you are foolish enough to ride it in the rain, or wash it ? or just cold air, using the bike hard and riding far creates friction which creates heat

I take his advice on the subject as I have seen his work, his 900ss is a jewel of a motorcycle and rides like a thoroughbred, plus he does my mates race bikes
I also have my gearbox oil changed on each service ( done every year) as again its cheap, and I tend to ride my motorcycle hard and far, back to Mandello Again this year, I want to wear it out before I am too old to ride any more
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote TheWrongTrousers Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08 Jan 2019 at 21:56
Raphael
I want to wear it out before I am too old to ride any more
[/QUOTE]

Well said that man !
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Mike H Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09 Jan 2019 at 17:36
Originally posted by TheWrongTrousers TheWrongTrousers wrote:

Not had the bike long, and am going over it from top to bottom to make it safe and sound.  God knows what lurks within the bevel box. Should I take it off and clean it out or should I just give it a top up when needed and leave well alone. There are no bad noises coming from within so maybe I should not go looking for problems when there are none. 

Any views ?


Maybe you should take it off to have the shaft out for a coating of looking at, a clean-up and regreasing. Check splines for wear. You can get a new coupling sleeve if wear is very noticeable.

Unfortunately this then leads us onto thinking about the universal joint...

FWIW, latterly I changed my FD oil from the hypoid 90 type, to SAE 85W140, plus a dash of moly - I noticed that the box felt cooler to the touch after a long run after that.


"Chicken nuggets don't dance on a Tuesday."
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Brian UK Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09 Jan 2019 at 17:40
Cooler must mean less friction.
Brian.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Mike H Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09 Jan 2019 at 18:10
That thought occurred to me also.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote kfz Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09 Jan 2019 at 18:59
Originally posted by Mike H Mike H wrote:

Originally posted by TheWrongTrousers TheWrongTrousers wrote:

Not had the bike long, and am going over it from top to bottom to make it safe and sound.  God knows what lurks within the bevel box. Should I take it off and clean it out or should I just give it a top up when needed and leave well alone. There are no bad noises coming from within so maybe I should not go looking for problems when there are none. 

Any views ?


Maybe you should take it off to have the shaft out for a coating of looking at, a clean-up and regreasing. Check splines for wear. You can get a new coupling sleeve if wear is very noticeable.

Unfortunately this then leads us onto thinking about the universal joint...

FWIW, latterly I changed my FD oil from the hypoid 90 type, to SAE 85W140, plus a dash of moly - I noticed that the box felt cooler to the touch after a long run after that.




Apart from its the wrong oil for a big block, That makes no sense.  Heavier oil  85W-140 vs 8-90, has less friction.  Surley a heavier oil, high viscocity oil is harder to move.....

Kev
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