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LM clutch alignment

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TheWrongTrousers View Drop Down
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    Posted: 17 Jan 2020 at 19:09
I am a the point of re-assembling my clutch. I can see that an official clutch alignment tool is recommended, but i can also see that in Guzzi-ology, it is said that this is not really necessary and you can just match them up using a bit of skill and judgment. I am attracted to the idea of not having to buy a tool that i will probably only use once, and if Guzziology says its ok, then it must be true right ?

Trouble is, I am not sure see what Dave Richardson is getting at in the way he describes it.

Has anyone else done it without the tool, and if so could someone give me a steer ?

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Brian UK View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Brian UK Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 17 Jan 2020 at 22:50
Can you get the splined centre off the gearbox? Use that.
Brian.

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Ken-Guzzibear View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Ken-Guzzibear Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 18 Jan 2020 at 11:59
Did it without the tool for many yrs and a fair few clutch jobbies Take off the gearbox cog use that to align the clutch centre However a couple of yrs back I bought the newer deeper splined Clutch set and the centre tool way easier ... i used it as I have 2 Guzzis and for my older 76 bike spare engines so tend to swap about Do you have the deep splined Clutch in you bike? Just note if you swap to deep splined clutch you have to change the sprocket they are different 
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Mike H View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Mike H Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 18 Jan 2020 at 21:16
As I was reminded recently, you need the splined boss or the similar shaped alignment tool to press the pressure plate in, and thus allow the friction and intermediate plates to go in, some people who have tried it without, sometimes bend the centre plain plate cos it's all wonky then there's a permanent clutch drag. Needs an M10 bolt I think to screw it into the crank end.



"Chicken nuggets don't dance on a Tuesday."
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote TheWrongTrousers Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 19 Jan 2020 at 14:53
Thanks for your views guys. I had another think about what DR said in Guzziology, and it made sense after having slept on it. I think it helped that I had the engine out of the bike and laid flat so that the back of it was facing upwards so i had a lot of light to see what was happening in there. I did up the 8 bolts by hand nice and gently and when I thought it was lined up right I placed the gearbox on top like putting a lid on from above, and gave it a little wiggle and the clutch hub went home. Then i checked it like that again a couple of times as i tightened the bolts up more but only with the socket and extension bar and making sure it did it evenly. It's all in place now, all teeth meshed and feels like it is right.  I think it would have been far harder had the frame been crabbed, but with the engine out it was not so hard to do it without the special tool. Anyway, fingers crossed all is well. 

Edited by TheWrongTrousers - 19 Jan 2020 at 16:01
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Mike H View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Mike H Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 19 Jan 2020 at 21:22
Oh I see, OK.

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Ken-Guzzibear View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Ken-Guzzibear Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 19 Jan 2020 at 22:09
Think you were lucky with engine out I always found it way easier to slide the gearbox in horizontally .... as has been said it is very easy to warp the centre plates .....the tool does make it so very easy ... with more than 1 bike it was worth getting ...... 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote TheWrongTrousers Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 20 Jan 2020 at 18:48
I may have been lucky Ken. I know it would have been easier with the tool, but I was emboldened by what it said in Guzziology about it not being that hard. I can see how it could have gone wrong - the tricky part seems to be getting the splines on the intermediate plate to engage properly, but I could see them clearly because there was a lot of bright sunshine to make life easier. So there we are, another little bit of knowledge for me to file away. 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote sardineone Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 20 Jan 2020 at 21:54
TWT, I wish you the best outcome on your clutch repair, but the proof will be in the pudding.  Report back to us when you get to test ride your repair.  I definitely had better results (like when my bike was new) once I used my pressure plate compression tool.  I used my inner spline carrier from my original (shallow) spline clutch to use as my spline alignment tool on my subsequent deep spline repairs.  I never got mine really right till I used my home made pressure plate compression tool BTW.
George

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Ken-Guzzibear View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Ken-Guzzibear Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 21 Jan 2020 at 11:55
I got into the habit of writing notes in an older, the grubby one, haynes manual when i did  a fix so i remembered it as sometimes it can be yrs before doing things like a clutch again. i typed out my quicker method of stripping the bike down for an engine outas following the manual takes about 2-3 hours longer. 

When i have any faults ...then fixed them in goes a memo note ....

I mark diags with torque settings

Marked the diag of the head bolts with tight/loose sequence and torque settings

even daft stuff like a direction of rotation on the alternator to help set up timing

May sound daft but has helped no end when doing a job and means i can use the old Hayes that is grubby ...I even found  one of the "Oxford Engineers" manuals that has lots of hints and tips.

I copied bits from Guzziology as THAT covers every bike so i add pages into old manual, pop them into the plastic pouches keeps grime off ...this sounds a bit ott maybe BUT has aved me hours of that ....

"Dammit where did i put that!" ...or often head scratching etc ...... before doing a big job I tend to look thro the manual and notes...

Oil types/ levels/ are on a board on the wall, handy when different bikes to do.
Got a wall board with ALL basic servicing notes on it and the wipe away end bit dates/miles oil changes/filters done last 

it all saves time and an awful lot of *@** it's

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George S View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote George S Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 21 Jan 2020 at 14:40
Sounds like you were taught by my apprenticeship instructor. Not only did he insist I made notes but he read them on a regular basis, with appropriate remarks if not done. No snowflake kid gloves then, learnt a few new words.Embarrassed
George

1994 Nevada
1962 Lightweight ducati Bevel Single
Son's 1990 1000S to borrow any time
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote sardineone Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 21 Jan 2020 at 16:10
Ken those notes are the way to go. Thumbs Up  I'll add when I disassemble my bike I put all the bolts to a sub assembly area (like the transmission to the crankcase or the clutch assembly) in a zip lock bag.  I've been fortunate to not have any extra bolts or washers left over after a repair.
George

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote TheWrongTrousers Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 21 Jan 2020 at 21:13
Wise words, Ken. 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote TheWrongTrousers Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11 Apr 2020 at 10:11
Originally posted by sardineone sardineone wrote:

TWT, I wish you the best outcome on your clutch repair, but the proof will be in the pudding.  Report back to us when you get to test ride your repair.  I definitely had better results (like when my bike was new) once I used my pressure plate compression tool.  I used my inner spline carrier from my original (shallow) spline clutch to use as my spline alignment tool on my subsequent deep spline repairs.  I never got mine really right till I used my home made pressure plate compression tool BTW.

The clutch is lovely. I would not have tried it without the tool unless Guzziology suggested it was not abig deal. It was tricky but ok if you are careful. Just reporting back as requested. 
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