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Lithium ion battery for V65 lario

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lingon View Drop Down
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    Posted: 23 Sep 2018 at 21:20
Hi! 

David from sweden here, my first post at this forum. Bought myself a vintage guzzi v65 from -86 a month ago. Beautiful creature. Great feeling to get it started after it had been sitting loveless and alone in a garage of the previous owner for many years. The electrical system was in very bad shape though and my plan is to rewire with the use of a motogadget m-unit. Im thinking about converting to a lithium ion battery witch takes less space. Gonna change to a combinded reg/rec aswell of course to go with the battery. The original battery has a capacity of 20 ah which i a lot. Is this really necessary or why would it not be possible with around 5 ah? I think original battery has around 250 CCR so I suppose i need that though. Any tips or ideas? 

Thank you all,
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Brian UK Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 23 Sep 2018 at 22:30
All batteries, inluding lithium ones, lose capacity during thier life.

If you start with a 20AH then you can afford to lose a part of this and still start the battery.
If you start with 5 AH, lose any part and you are stuck.

Equally if the bike is hesitant to start, you get a second or third chance with a large capacity battery. With a small capacity type if it doesn't start first time, you are stuck.

You do need a minimum CCA, or amps output to turn the starter motor and spin the engine. Equally the battery volts must not drop too much or it won't start anyway because the ignition system won't produce a spark.

My advice would always be to fit the largest capacity battery you can get to fit in the space available. They will last longest.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Gianni Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 23 Sep 2018 at 22:47
Some useful information here about lithium batteries, charging and starter current...
 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Brian UK Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 23 Sep 2018 at 23:07
People selling things always try to make them look good.

Lithium batteries do produce more cranking amps for their size than a lead acid battery. This is very true.
But this is only a part of the story. How long they will produce those amps will always only depend on the capacity in amp hours of the battery. So 3AH will not produce 250 Amps for very long even when new (talking seconds). A 20AH LA battery will produce those amps for some minutes when new. Both types won't give the same performance after a few years.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Brian UK Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 23 Sep 2018 at 23:15
It is also true to say Lithium batteries require a different charging regime than lead acid. More information on the detail here.
Brian.

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lingon View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote lingon Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 24 Sep 2018 at 07:05
Thanks alot guys for fast answers! Im gonna take your advice and fit the most powerful battery that fits. 

/D
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote jefrs Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 24 Sep 2018 at 22:53
To start an engine you need a 'starter battery, not a 'deep-cycle' battery. A starter battery can provide a CCA of between ten and twenty times the charge capacity.
The V7II has a 1.5kW starter motor, that draws 125A without taking surge current into account, which may double the initial current. The bike battery is 12Ah wet lead acid, 10x12 = 120 but 20x12 = 240 i.e. that battery can cope. 
A lithium battery, like the one on my e-bike,  is more like a 'deep-cycle' battery. They are intended to provide moderate current over a long period. They are not intended to provide huge amounts of current over a short period. Doing that effectively shorts them out and can do damage. 
A lithium battery is often only 1/3 the charge capacity of its so-called equivalent lead acid battery
To date, no lithium battery can pass the SAE CCA test for a starter battery.
The technology for a lithium starter battery is, not there yet.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Brian UK Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 25 Sep 2018 at 08:30
And there have been enough examples of what happens to a lithium battery when it is effectively shorted out.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote johnno Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 25 Sep 2018 at 10:42
i have been running my 650 TT on 12v 9AH for last year ,it's worked fine . I was given it but I would not buy a battery of only 9ah

Edited by johnno - 25 Sep 2018 at 10:45
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote rapheal Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 25 Sep 2018 at 15:49
Originally posted by Brian UK Brian UK wrote:

And there have been enough examples of what happens to a lithium battery when it is effectively shorted out.

They make a nasty mess of flying machines dont they !!
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote jefrs Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 26 Sep 2018 at 01:37
Originally posted by Brian UK Brian UK wrote:

It is also true to say Lithium batteries require a different charging regime than lead acid. More information on the detail here.



That also means that a bike's alternator and standard regulator are not capable of recharging a lithium properly.

The technology will come but there will have to be a demand from cars, which are the major market. Bike technology is cottage industry compared to cars.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote Brian UK Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 26 Sep 2018 at 07:56
Having said all that, lithium batteries are sold for bikes, and do work. But they are very expensive. They are also claimed to last 10 years, but all that I have come across lasted no longer than a normal LA battery.
So all that extra money was only for a small weight saving, and most could acheive that by eating a few less pies.
Brian.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote rapheal Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 26 Sep 2018 at 17:37
52 quid exide battery for my guzzi supplied and fitted
local battery specialist, been there since WW2
I cant be bothered getting stuff off the net, if the battery dies I can pop back to get it replaced
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote red leader one Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 26 Sep 2018 at 18:27
Who would this be, the battery specialist.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Brian UK Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 26 Sep 2018 at 19:12
You're lucky to have one close by. I would certainly use a local supplier if there was one.
Brian.

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