Lithium Battery

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   I am thinking of replacing the battery on my Spoti with an Antigravity Lithium Battery - has anyone used one of these on their Moto Guzzi?

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Guztave Members Profile Send Private Message Find Members Posts Add to Buddy List Senior Member Joined: 30 Nov 2014 Location: Exeter Status: Offline Points: 407	Post Options Post Reply Quote Guztave Report Post Thanks(0) Quote Reply Topic: Lithium Battery Posted: 30 Dec 2014 at 16:05
	I am thinking of replacing the battery on my Spoti with an Antigravity Lithium Battery - has anyone used one of these on their Moto Guzzi?

Ken-Guzzibear Members Profile Send Private Message Find Members Posts Add to Buddy List Moderator Group Joined: 13 May 2014 Location: Sileby Leics Status: Online Points: 6442	Post Options Post Reply Quote Ken-Guzzibear Report Post Thanks(0) Quote Reply Posted: 30 Dec 2014 at 17:34
	there was a discussion some time ago very expensive for not a lot of real gain the agm ones are ok BUT I found the Bosch system killed mine I went back to the oem one on the V1000 the V11 uses an AGM one and it works well with the Ducati altenator set up BUT I found the AGM batteries do need to have the bike hooked up to a battery tender they seem to loose charge the Lithium ones I really only know from what I have read
	The Older i Get, The Better I Was

Brian UK Members Profile Send Private Message Find Members Posts Add to Buddy List Moderator Group Joined: 13 May 2014 Location: Surrey Status: Online Points: 13643	Post Options Post Reply Quote Brian UK Report Post Thanks(0) Quote Reply Posted: 30 Dec 2014 at 22:57
	Various people have mentioned them on the Guzzitech forum. Advantages, Light weight, but a diet could sometimes lose more. Long life, as much as twice the life of a lead acid. Good retention of charge, but don't like continuous low load as in alarms etc. Disadvantage High cost, often twice the cost of a lead acid. Have been known to heat up and catch fire. Edited by Brian UK - 30 Dec 2014 at 22:58
	Brian. Better 5 minutes late in this world than years early in the next.

lawny Members Profile Send Private Message Find Members Posts Add to Buddy List Falcone Joined: 23 Dec 2014 Location: United Kingdom Status: Offline Points: 41	Post Options Post Reply Quote lawny Report Post Thanks(0) Quote Reply Posted: 30 Dec 2014 at 23:29
	I have a Shorai on my Norge. it is certainly lighter and smaller than the Yuasa that came as stock but costs twice as much. I suffer from the dreaded no-start on occasion when the voltage drops and the 15Amp fuse blows. The Shorai does much better than the various lead-acid batteries that I've tried but nothing seems to solve it completely (short of doing the relay by-pass, I presume). My Norge lives outside under one of the folding tent things and in the winter a) I can't leave it on trickle charge and b) it gets very cold sometimes - not good for the lead acids. My impression is that the Shorai stands the cold much better than the Yuasa or any other conventional battery. Plus, if you do want to remove it for charging (not essential as there is a cable for it on-board) or for fiddling with something else , it is easier than lead-acid simply because of the weight.

Guztave Members Profile Send Private Message Find Members Posts Add to Buddy List Senior Member Joined: 30 Nov 2014 Location: Exeter Status: Offline Points: 407	Post Options Post Reply Quote Guztave Report Post Thanks(1) Quote Reply Posted: 31 Dec 2014 at 00:22
	I guess the lithium battery is much smaller than the original? I could do with making a bit more space to carry some more tools etc

Brian UK Members Profile Send Private Message Find Members Posts Add to Buddy List Moderator Group Joined: 13 May 2014 Location: Surrey Status: Online Points: 13643	Post Options Post Reply Quote Brian UK Report Post Thanks(0) Quote Reply Posted: 31 Dec 2014 at 11:10
	Smaller? Depends on what you compare with. The later type AGM Lead Acid batteries are much smaller than the older type fitted as standard on the Tonti bikes. I would say the shorai and other Lithium types are about the same as the AGM for size. Lawny, what you need is a solar charger, just sit it on top of the tent, that's what I use, it's a 4 Watt one, and it keeps the standard battery up OK. The Norge, as with all the other later models, does have a constant drain on the battery unless it is disconnected. With the small capacity of all the later fitted batteries, this means they get discharges in about 3 weeks unless trickle charged.
	Brian. Better 5 minutes late in this world than years early in the next.

Brian UK Members Profile Send Private Message Find Members Posts Add to Buddy List Moderator Group Joined: 13 May 2014 Location: Surrey Status: Online Points: 13643	Post Options Post Reply Quote Brian UK Report Post Thanks(0) Quote Reply Posted: 02 Jan 2015 at 09:20
	Just seen a mention of another Lithium battery, Anti-Gravity, made in USA, not China. Comparison between the two can be found here.
	Brian. Better 5 minutes late in this world than years early in the next.

Oldrat Members Profile Send Private Message Find Members Posts Add to Buddy List Senior Member Joined: 31 May 2014 Location: Harrow Status: Offline Points: 1453	Post Options Post Reply Quote Oldrat Report Post Thanks(0) Quote Reply Posted: 02 Jan 2015 at 09:27
	What size of lithium battery (amps) , shorai or anti gravity, does a large tonti need. It might even fit in the seat hump of my project. Cheers

Guztave Members Profile Send Private Message Find Members Posts Add to Buddy List Senior Member Joined: 30 Nov 2014 Location: Exeter Status: Offline Points: 407	Post Options Post Reply Quote Guztave Report Post Thanks(0) Quote Reply Posted: 02 Jan 2015 at 09:35
	Thanks for this comparison link - very interesting

Brian UK Members Profile Send Private Message Find Members Posts Add to Buddy List Moderator Group Joined: 13 May 2014 Location: Surrey Status: Online Points: 13643	Post Options Post Reply Quote Brian UK Report Post Thanks(0) Quote Reply Posted: 02 Jan 2015 at 09:41
	Oldrat, the key point is the output in terms of amps (CCA). Even the smallest Lithium battery will give more CCA than the normal Lead Acid you would have as standard. Even this would give the output of your normal LA battery (for a short time). Just check the size.
	Brian. Better 5 minutes late in this world than years early in the next.

Oldrat Members Profile Send Private Message Find Members Posts Add to Buddy List Senior Member Joined: 31 May 2014 Location: Harrow Status: Offline Points: 1453	Post Options Post Reply Quote Oldrat Report Post Thanks(0) Quote Reply Posted: 02 Jan 2015 at 13:58
	Brian, now you've completely thrown me with that iphone sized gadget! I'll start a new thread as I don't want to hijack this one. Cheers.

tonewuk Members Profile Send Private Message Find Members Posts Add to Buddy List Moderator Group Joined: 30 May 2014 Location: WEST BROMWICH Status: Offline Points: 339	Post Options Post Reply Quote tonewuk Report Post Thanks(0) Quote Reply Posted: 02 Jan 2015 at 14:55
	On my Spada project,I am using a a Westco 22amp battery a lot smaller than stock,Gives loads of room around it.I could not justify a Lithium battery.

Biggles Members Profile Send Private Message Find Members Posts Add to Buddy List Senior Member Joined: 13 May 2014 Location: Worcester Status: Offline Points: 264	Post Options Post Reply Quote Biggles Report Post Thanks(0) Quote Reply Posted: 02 Jan 2015 at 16:49
	The advice, for the moment at least, has to be don't use lithium batteries on your bikes unless your bike is designed to charge them, or the battery has in inbuilt system that will accept your bikes present charging system : http://batteryuniversity.com/learn/article/charging_lithium_ion_batteries
	Best Wishes Nigel

Brian UK Members Profile Send Private Message Find Members Posts Add to Buddy List Moderator Group Joined: 13 May 2014 Location: Surrey Status: Online Points: 13643	Post Options Post Reply Quote Brian UK Report Post Thanks(0) Quote Reply Posted: 02 Jan 2015 at 17:10
	Well certainly reading that, a bike charging system which goes up to 14.5 volts would be overcharging considerably if the Lithium battery runs at 4.2 volts per cell, that's 3 cells and 12.6 volts fully charged. Interesting. Overcharging can cause heat build up, and as many may have heard there were problems on aircraft using lithium batteries which caused a fire. Could be useful on a cold day with the battery under the seat though. Lithium batteries seem to be in relatively common use in the States, where the saving of 5 pounds in weight on a fully loaded bike - with 15 stone rider - is considered worth the expense. Not heard of any problems so far. Equally with the litigious attitude in that country, I would be surprised if a US company would advertise these for use as replacements for lead acid.
	Brian. Better 5 minutes late in this world than years early in the next.

Biggles Members Profile Send Private Message Find Members Posts Add to Buddy List Senior Member Joined: 13 May 2014 Location: Worcester Status: Offline Points: 264	Post Options Post Reply Quote Biggles Report Post Thanks(0) Quote Reply Posted: 02 Jan 2015 at 17:17
	I wonder if they've built voltage limiting circuitry into the batteries there ? That wouldn't get you over the trickle charge effect though. It struck me as odd when I read the post, hence I googled it, because the charging circuits I've seen (which isn't many), are notably different in design (electronically) from what I'm used to seeing.
	Best Wishes Nigel