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I'm back... with even more problems

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AntonisT83V7 View Drop Down
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    Posted: 25 Apr 2016 at 20:04
Hello all,

I'm once again posting to ask for advice on the nightmare of a bike that is my V7II. You can see my previous post here (http://www.guzziriders.org/new-bike-same-problems-gearbox-stalling_topic3198_post28573.html?KW=AntonisT83V7#28573).

It's been a little over 5 months, and 2500+ miles, since the bike went to the service center and was repaired under warranty.   

So 2-3 weeks ago I started having the same problems, with the clutch needing constant adjustment (3 times during an 8 mile trip on one instance), the biting point fluctuating quite a lot when the engine had warmed up etc. In addition to this there were two occasions when I pulled in the clutch to change gear and it felt very much like the clutch cable had snapped, with the lever becoming loose, the clutch staying engaged and the bike pulling me forward as it remained in gear. I quickly switched the bike off and put it in neutral and realized that the cable hadn't snapped but needed to be adjusted quite extensively (I was stack in the middle of a high way so in the rush I didn't count exactly but it took at least two full turns of the lever clutch adjustment nut). So I decided that enough is enough and was about time I took it back to the dealership. In the meantime the oil pressure indicator flushed a couple of times under heavy acceleration so thought I would let him know about that in case the engine oil (which i checked 2-3 weeks ago) needed top-up.

I told the dealer in no uncertain terms that enough is enough with this bike, it was bought new 10 months ago and has 4500 miles on the clock and has not gone more than 4 months straight without giving any problems. So in short that I am looking for an exit strategy and that in my eyes the bike is clearly a factory defect. I also wrote a formal letter of complain to Moto Guzzi UK (the second time I do that as i also sent them one during the October 2015 ordeal) saying that it is clear to me that the bike was defective from day one and I request a full refund on the purchase cost. (in hindsight this was a mistake... or at least miss-timed) 

On a call with the dealer earlier today I was informed of the 'bad news'. Apparently none of the problems I observed are related to the clutch/gearbox but have to do with multiple engine parts (crank, bearings etc) that were damaged due to low engine oil level. And since engine oil is the responsibility of the rider he is unsure if the repair will be covered by warranty, though he will do his best to cover it. He also said that I can't have checked the oil lately cause there is no way the bike burned through a litre of oil in 2-3 weeks.

So I have a few questions:
a) If the engine oil level is low, shouldn't the oil pressure indicator come on and stay on ??!
b) Is it normal for an engine with faulty bearings,crank etc to run and sound absolutely fine ? 
c) Could the clutch issues described above be related to engine faults while the clutch/gearbox are absolutely fine ? 
d) Is it normal for a new bike to need engine oil top-up every 2500 miles??  

Any other advice will be greatly appreciated!

Thanks, 

Ant
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exsmokingbiker View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote exsmokingbiker Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 25 Apr 2016 at 20:39
oil light is done by pressure technically it can stay off with 1/2 a litre in the sump
 and if its quite when running all bearings are good
oil consumption  is normally high untill 10000 miles and yes top up every 2500 is reasonablle


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote vmaxer Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 25 Apr 2016 at 20:46
Originally posted by AntonisT83V7 AntonisT83V7 wrote:


d) Is it normal for a new bike to need engine oil top-up every 2500 miles??  

Erm, YES
Shocked
 
I would never leave engine oil unchecked on any bike for 2,500 miles.
It's basic owner maintenance that you are responsible for.
As well as that, some engines tend to use more oil during the break in period.
Oh and of course small block Guzzi's have a very small engine oil capacity.
Are you saying that you never thought to check, and if necessary top up the engine oil in 2,500 miles.
Gulp
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote AntonisT83V7 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 25 Apr 2016 at 20:57
Thanks for the reply guys.

I did check the oil level about 2-3 weeks before i took the bike to the dealers. The level showed just below max so didn't think it was urgent to top it up. 
Didn't know about the small engine oil capacity though. 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote vmaxer Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 25 Apr 2016 at 21:16
Originally posted by AntonisT83V7 AntonisT83V7 wrote:

I did check the oil level about 2-3 weeks before i took the bike to the dealers. The level showed just below max so didn't think it was urgent to top it up. 
Didn't know about the small engine oil capacity though. 
 
Well if that really is the case, then fair enough, but you did ask the question, "is it normal to have to top up the engine oil level in 2,500 miles" which frankly rings alarm bells.
 
It's good practice to check your engine oil level weekly if the bike is in regular use, and every time you do a longer trip, before, during and after.
 
I take it you were checking it with the bike bolt upright ?
 
I know V7's don't have a centre stand as standard,
 
Yes those V7's have a miniscule oil capacity, which means it doesn't take much burn off to cause significant problems.
 
But if you checked the level properly, and it was as you say, just below the maximum mark on the dipstick when you became aware of these issues, then I can't see how you could be to blame.
 
When I started reading your post, I thought immediately, faulty clutch cable.
 
I've had that happen to me before


Edited by vmaxer - 25 Apr 2016 at 21:21
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Dave P. Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 25 Apr 2016 at 21:25
What is the oil change interval on a small block V7
TO LIVE OUTSIDE THE LAW YOU MUST BE HONEST.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote AntonisT83V7 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 25 Apr 2016 at 22:03
Originally posted by vmaxer vmaxer wrote:

Originally posted by AntonisT83V7 AntonisT83V7 wrote:

I did check the oil level about 2-3 weeks before i took the bike to the dealers. The level showed just below max so didn't think it was urgent to top it up. 
Didn't know about the small engine oil capacity though. 
 
Well if that really is the case, then fair enough, but you did ask the question, "is it normal to have to top up the engine oil level in 2,500 miles" which frankly rings alarm bells.
 
It's good practice to check your engine oil level weekly if the bike is in regular use, and every time you do a longer trip, before, during and after.
 
I take it you were checking it with the bike bolt upright ?
 
I know V7's don't have a centre stand as standard,
 
Yes those V7's have a miniscule oil capacity, which means it doesn't take much burn off to cause significant problems.
 
But if you checked the level properly, and it was as you say, just below the maximum mark on the dipstick when you became aware of these issues, then I can't see how you could be to blame.
 
When I started reading your post, I thought immediately, faulty clutch cable.
 
I've had that happen to me before

I use the bike daily but it's a short commute. I generally try to give it a good clean and check twice a month but been really busy lately so it might be more like once every 3 weeks or so.The flashing oil pressure only happened 1-2 days before i took it in.  

Never owned a Guzzi or a v-twin before hence the question about the top-up. 

That's what i find weird, the engine really didn't feel or sound like it had anything wrong with it. It felt a lot like it was more of the same problems, meaning clutch and gearbox.   
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Brian UK Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 25 Apr 2016 at 22:12
In any case, low oil level in itself won't damage bearings unless it is so low as to starve those bearings of oil, in which case the oil pressure warning light will come on.
 
But forget all that, just how can a clutch and gear change problem be down to low engine oil level, even if it was low? If you had to adjust the play in the clutch cable, then no change in engine oil level could ever have an effect on that.
 
I would love to hear that dealer's explanation of how an engine bearing problem could affect the clutch. The only thing I can think of is that there is end play in the crankshaft.
 
If, when you checked the oil level it was just below the max mark then there was plenty of oil in there, certainly it could never be low enough to cause bearing problems.


Edited by Brian UK - 25 Apr 2016 at 22:15
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote AntonisT83V7 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 25 Apr 2016 at 22:14
Originally posted by Dave P. Dave P. wrote:

What is the oil change interval on a small block V7


Manufacturer recommended is 6k miles or 10km  
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote exsmokingbiker Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 25 Apr 2016 at 22:15
end-play in the crank would be a slow change  this sounds more like adjuster jumping the threads etc


 

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote vmaxer Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 25 Apr 2016 at 22:18
Originally posted by AntonisT83V7 AntonisT83V7 wrote:


I use the bike daily but it's a short commute. I generally try to give it a good clean and check twice a month but been really busy lately so it might be more like once every 3 weeks or so.The flashing oil pressure only happened 1-2 days before i took it in.  

Never owned a Guzzi or a v-twin before hence the question about the top-up. 

That's what i find weird, the engine really didn't feel or sound like it had anything wrong with it. It felt a lot like it was more of the same problems, meaning clutch and gearbox.   
 
Well, doubtless you'll get an expert viewpoint soon, but as I read your post, it did sound more like clutch / gearbox.
 
Sounded a bit like a V7 I heard about that Moto Strada took in, with a knackered gearbox.
 
I was chatting to one of the guys there on the phone, when this tragic story was relayed to me.
 
The owner had bought it from them, but lived down my way so took it to a local dealership for it's first service.
 
Immediately after that, the gearbox started playing up, so he took it back and they said all was OK.
 
It wasn't so he sent it back to Moto Strada, who found the gearbox completely knackered.
 
They reckon the dealer who did the first service, forgot to refill the gearbox oil after draining it off for the service, as nothing else could account for the damage they found.
 
When it went back to that dealer, they probably realized and filled it up hoping for the best, but by that time the damage had been done.
 
Anyway, I digress.
 
I doubt many here will read your post without thinking it's a gearbox, clutch issue, but then your mechanic has the bike, so must see what has happened.
 
 
 
 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Brian UK Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 25 Apr 2016 at 22:19
OK, just read your first post again. You say that the oil light did flash on momentarily? on a couple of occasions when accelerating hard. That could be down to the oil going to the back of the sump on acceleration, but even so it would not be long enough for the bearings to be damaged. Sounds as if they are looking for a cop out.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote johnno Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 25 Apr 2016 at 22:22
Ru London based is there no guzzi rider that could see the bike for you . Get it looked at by another dealer ?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote AntonisT83V7 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 25 Apr 2016 at 22:24
Originally posted by Brian UK Brian UK wrote:

In any case, low oil level in itself won't damage bearings unless it is so low as to starve those bearings of oil, in which case the oil pressure warning light will come on.
 
But forget all that, just how can a clutch and gear change problem be down to low engine oil level, even if it was low? If you had to adjust the play in the clutch cable, then no change in engine oil level could ever have an effect on that.
 
I would love to hear that dealer's explanation of how an engine bearing problem could affect the clutch. The only thing I can think of is that there is end play in the crankshaft.
 
If, when you checked the oil level it was just below the max mark then there was plenty of oil in there, certainly it could never be low enough to cause bearing problems.


He said there was 1 liter of oil left, which is half capacity if I'm not mistaken.  
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote johnno Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 25 Apr 2016 at 22:26
1 litre is not good
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