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Breva1100 electrical issues

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Ianboydsnr View Drop Down
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    Posted: 15 May 2014 at 19:02
Got this strange set of problems that I have been asked to look at, concerning a 2005 breva 1100,
No front lights, and starter motor issues ,

Sometimes the starter motor works, other times not, sometimes when you press the starter button, the starter works, but it still works when you let go off the button, eventually the motor will either start or stop, I suspect the starter motor solenoid is sticking, but have yet to take a look,

The other issue, is that the front light won't work, side lamp is on with ignition, start engine but lights fail to turn on,


I have swapped the starter relay with the light relay and the lights work if you energise the relay, so I have ordered a couple of new relays from fowlers, I will swap one of the relays out of my breva tomorrow to confirm that the new relay will fix the lights issue,

Those relays are difficult to source, ended up ordering them from fowlers,

I will certainly replace mine with normal, easier to source relays, if they fail like on this one,

Thing is, the bike has only done 5k miles,

Anyone had a starter apart, on one of these, I have recently stripped and cleaned a BMW airhead starter, and that was straightforward, so I am not expecting any issues,

A picture of the bike!
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Edited by Ianboydsnr - 15 May 2014 at 19:04
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Brian UK View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Brian UK Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 15 May 2014 at 22:31
First of all read the click no crank topic in FAQ.
 
Think the B1100 is the same, my Norge is designed to keep the starter running until the engine starts. You just have to touch the button then stand back.
 
The lights are controlled by the ECU/Dash, and come on once the engine revs reach about 800. They do not come on with the ignition.
 
I very much doubt changing the relays will make any difference. But what you can do is check if the lights relay is earthed by the Dash once the engine is running.
 
In case you don't have the wiring diagram, it's here.


Edited by Brian UK - 15 May 2014 at 22:48
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Brian UK Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 15 May 2014 at 22:44
I have also had a problem with the starter solenoid. Basically they cover the plunger inside with grease which dries and goes sticky in time, which prevents the plunger from making contact, especially if full volts are not available due to the start relay wiring.
The answer is to remove the starter, then remove the solenoid and clean the plunger, then coat it with oil and reassemble.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Ianboydsnr Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 16 May 2014 at 10:02
I changed the relay and the lights now work, just need to do the starter mod and clean the motor!
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Brian UK Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 16 May 2014 at 13:10
Must try to find a source for those relays. They are used on Aprilia plus others.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Ianboydsnr Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 16 May 2014 at 13:31
Originally posted by Brian UK Brian UK wrote:

Must try to find a source for those relays. They are used on Aprilia plus others.

they did seem difficult to find, I had to order from fowlers, though not to expensive at £21 a pair including postage,

I think I will change mine to easier to source relays, when they need replaced, actually I might replace the starter relay to a normal 70amp quality one, that I bought a pair off a while ago and fitted one to the le mans, that way I will have a spare of those odd relay's


Edited by Ianboydsnr - 16 May 2014 at 13:34
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Brian UK Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 16 May 2014 at 13:41

Labled as L5A but also known as HLA614 and available here, new, don't know how much Guzzi want.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Ianboydsnr Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 16 May 2014 at 15:03
well I did the mod, it was that quick and easy, that I did mine as well, took a few pictures


you need some crimp terminals bag of 50 is about £2.50, you need the ones with the tang

http://www.autoelectricsupplies.co.uk/product/825/category/2 - http://www.autoelectricsupplies.co.uk/product/825/category/2

ring terminals for connecting to the battery,
pack of 50 is about £4.50

tool, which is most useful if you ever do wiring
http://www.autoelectricsupplies.co.uk/product/474/category/87 - http://www.autoelectricsupplies.co.uk/product/474/category/87

in line fuse holder
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/5x-In-Line-standard-Waterproof-Blade-Fuse-Holder-Fuses-10A-Car-Boat-Bike-12V-24V-/360852504334?pt=UK_Motorcycle_Parts&hash=item54047c3f0e - http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/5x-In-Line-standard-Waterproof-Blade-Fuse-Holder-Fuses-10A-Car-Boat-Bike-12V-24V-/360852504334?pt=UK_Motorcycle_Parts&hash=item54047c3f0e

ready to start

 

terminal crimped on,


poke the tang out of the original terminal and pull the terminal out from the rear,


you may have to wiggle the terminal,

 

poke the new terminal connected to the in line fuse into the block the same way as the original until it clicks home,

 

crimp on the other end of the fused cable the ring terminal, not forgetting some heat shrink to cover the joint, I used the 10.4mm terminals,


connect the ring end to the positive terminal on the battery,

 

don't forget to fit a 30amp fuse, and some shrink wrap around the old removed terminal,

 

worked a treat,

I also had the starter motor off and cleaned, its a valeo D6RA, strangely I cleaned lubed and replaced the brushes on one of these a week ago, only a mirror image, to fit an airhead Bmw  

  http://s305.photobucket.com/user/hrhpenfold/media/Mobile%20Uploads/2014-05/F0A8DA76-ED1A-4912-B868-FA3ED64CB47D_zpsdj6wak5c.jpg. -


parts for them are easy to find, as the same starter motor is fitted to small french cars and vauxhalls, some are slightly different, but they all use the same spare parts, bought these last week,

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Opel-astra-corsa-valeo-starter-motor-4-90-/161072424509?_trksid=p2047675.l4066


feel free to move this over if it helps explain the modification a bit better!


Sorry I can't seem to work the hyperlink, it previews ok, just won't work when posted!




Edited by Ianboydsnr - 16 May 2014 at 15:11
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Brian UK View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Brian UK Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 16 May 2014 at 21:39
The wiring mod does help. I removed the yellow wire spade terminal from the relay socket rather than an interim connector
As far as I know the only real difference between the Guzzi starter motor and others is the direction of rotation. I have a later Bosch starter on the Norge, but it all works just the same.
 


Edited by Brian UK - 16 May 2014 at 21:47
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Ianboydsnr Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 19 May 2014 at 22:32
Update,

New relay arrived today and the bike now works fine,

It's in for a mot Wednesday!
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Brian UK Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 20 May 2014 at 08:33
That's the first account I have heard of one of those relays failing. Hopefully it means that in general they are fairly reliable, unlike the Siemens ones fitted to the late 90s bikes.
Still like to find a cheaper source though. They cost pennies to manufacture.
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