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GC888 View Drop Down
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    Posted: 27 Oct 2017 at 08:55
Ball bearings that is - any one know the size of the steering head race ball bearings? 
v35/v50 mk2

In my innocence I thought they would be a standard metric size however the ones fitted are 0.46mm
A quick bit of mental maths suggested that would be 3/16 imperial 

So very odd for an Italian to select imperial bearings .....but 3/16ths is 4.76mm 

This makes me suspicious they are non standard and someone has fitted different balls since it left the factory. 

Any suggestions? 

Thanks 

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Barry View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Barry Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 27 Oct 2017 at 09:10
Originally posted by GC888 GC888 wrote:


So very odd for an Italian to select imperial bearings ...



Not really. Quite a lot of non-metric, here and there. Something to do with re-tooling after WWII, and as I understand it, with much of the machinery being US-supplied, and thus not metric (and not exactly 'imperial' either, come to that).

Having said that, I don't know what size bearings you need, so I'll just go and stand over there, until someone who does know comes along...
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote red leader one Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 27 Oct 2017 at 11:35
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Brian UK View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Brian UK Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 27 Oct 2017 at 11:51
Goes back a lot further than WWII.
ALL plumbing threads in Europe are British Standard Pipe thread, though they call it some metric equivalent. That dates back to our industrial revolution which predates the rest of Europe, when we were the only ones producing gas barrel.
Brian.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote ranton_rambler Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 27 Oct 2017 at 13:17
I think small-block head bearings are very hard to find. I believe the accepted modification is to make adaptors to take something else. I did see a NOS set for sale at Stafford Show 2 weeks ago......
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Barry View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote Barry Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 27 Oct 2017 at 13:32
Armed with that useful clue, Gutsibits might be able to help (other providers are available):

http://www.gutsibits.co.uk/pr/TheShop/index.php?q=FRA19999&f=d&Model=0&search=SEARCH

They have 4.7mm balls, also.


Edited by Barry - 27 Oct 2017 at 13:38
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GC888 View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote GC888 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 27 Oct 2017 at 13:41
Problem solved - there was mix of bearings! 

My guess is that at some stage in the past a previous owner had added a few oddities to make up numbers - going through each one some are older and a bit worn some are 5mm. 

Thankfully the actual bearings are 100% look like new and have no damage from the selection box bunged in. £5 for a new set of 3/16th s balls will resolve the problems. 

However £22 will get a new set of taper bearings to bring it into the 21 century!

      
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GC888 View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote GC888 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 27 Oct 2017 at 13:59
Originally posted by Barry Barry wrote:

Armed with that useful clue, Gutsibits might be able to help (other providers are available):

http://www.gutsibits.co.uk/pr/TheShop/index.php?q=FRA19999&f=d&Model=0&search=SEARCH

They have 4.7mm balls, also.

Thats interesting I missed the 4.7mm balls - now are they 4.7 or 4.76 mm!!!? 
I'm sure they are the 3/16ths they buy in when required. 

The kit/spacers to fit the bearings is new - others are selling the £22 kit with spacers not required/included? 




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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote telegraphroad Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 27 Oct 2017 at 15:19
This raises an interesting point which I have been wondering about for some time - perhaps someone can put me right.

One of the features of my Monza which I particularly appreciate is the very sensitive and responsive steering. I know that a lot of this is down to geometry but I instinctively attribute some of it to the use of non-tapered ball bearings in the steering head. It's a labour of love to keep then adjusted just so but when you get it right the bike feels great dropping in to and coming out of turns. Anything in that or am I just romantisising an out of date technical solution?
V50 Monza
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GC888 View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote GC888 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 27 Oct 2017 at 16:37
Technically the tapered rollers don't change the steering geometry. 

So if your bearings are adjusted correctly you will feel no difference. 

With the kit that uses spacers, the bottom yoke sits further down the fork leg. As your gripping more fork leg will make it a tiny bit stiffer as the fork leg will have less flex.  his could put a tiny extra leverage on the frame and make it flex more.  

Generally all the above are good things apart from the frame flexing more and as its over engineered I doubt it will flex.

But its all so small a difference its mathematical hypothesis rather then anything you would feel. You will just have bearings that are easier to set, stay set longer and last longer. Meaning you will get that sweet spot dropping in and out of curves more often. As you enjoy the long stable geometry of the bike.

The cheap experiment of dropping the yokes lower on the fork leg to increase the head angle is always a good way to get 'turn in' at the expense of stability. This would happen if the top yoke needed raising. 


 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote telegraphroad Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 27 Oct 2017 at 17:09
Ah, OK, that's interesting - makes sense too, thanks.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Ken-Guzzibear Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 27 Oct 2017 at 20:44
This is all about small balls it seems !!!!
The Older i Get, The Better I Was
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote telegraphroad Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 27 Oct 2017 at 23:29
Small. But hard.
V50 Monza
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