guzziriders.org - moto guzzi forum Homepage
Forum Home Forum Home > Technical > General Electrical issues
  New Posts New Posts RSS Feed - Click no crank question?
  FAQ FAQ  Forum Search   Events   Register Register  Login Login

Click no crank question?

 Post Reply Post Reply Page  <123
Author
Message
TooJuicy View Drop Down
Senior Member
Senior Member
Avatar

Joined: 06 May 2015
Location: Guildford, Surr
Status: Offline
Points: 759
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote TooJuicy Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 17 Nov 2021 at 17:55
Originally posted by Brian UK Brian UK wrote:

One thing I did find some years back, after doing the wiring med, I still had a few problems.
I took the starter off and removed the solenoid.

Grease the pivot but not the plunger.

Brian, can you kindly clarify which pivot you mean?  I'm hoping I won't have to dismantle the electric motor itself in getting to the bendix lever arm pivot.  Is the pivot you greased accessible if I remove the solenoid?  I'm hoping it's the end of the lever arm you suggest to grease, where the plunger connects.

Tony
Back to Top
TooJuicy View Drop Down
Senior Member
Senior Member
Avatar

Joined: 06 May 2015
Location: Guildford, Surr
Status: Offline
Points: 759
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote TooJuicy Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 17 Nov 2021 at 18:01
Originally posted by Brian UK Brian UK wrote:

By the way, do you know how old the battery is?

I have just fitted a new Yuasa battery.  

The Yuasa battery fitted to the bike at time the starter failed was only a few years old, however it had had a tough life.  The bike was hardly used through 2020 & 2021 and also sat unloved in a dealer workshop for two months Nov/Dec 2020 where I imagine it was allowed to run flat.  Still, that battery is now history.
Back to Top
Brian UK View Drop Down
Moderator Group
Moderator Group
Avatar

Joined: 13 May 2014
Location: Surrey
Status: Offline
Points: 17641
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Brian UK Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 17 Nov 2021 at 20:35
First, was the new battery fully charged? Repeatedly starting will discharge a partly charged new battery, and they are often only partly charged.

Yes, I do mean the pivot on the solenoid to pinion operating arm. But first of all make sure the plunger is clean, and the inside of the solenoid body. Sticky grease in there affected mine.
Brian.

Better 5 minutes late in this world than years early in the next.
Back to Top
TooJuicy View Drop Down
Senior Member
Senior Member
Avatar

Joined: 06 May 2015
Location: Guildford, Surr
Status: Offline
Points: 759
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote TooJuicy Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 17 Nov 2021 at 22:23
Brian, yes battery was fully charged.  

The present Yuasa is brand new from Tayna as of September and when it arrived I put it on my CTEK charger for best part of a week to bring the voltage right up.  This battery has not been connected to the Guzzi at all until yesterday for first time, it got put on the CTEK occasionally between September and yesterday,  including the last few days before firing up the engine first time this morning.  

I can test the voltage tmr but unless the new Yuasa is a dud it should have been in great shape today.  

The starter wasn't really operated repeatedly until I was back from a 90 minute ride today,  and is straight back on the CTEK.  Yesterday I hooked up freshly charged battety for first time and I let the startet turn once before killing it before the engine fired. Put it back on charge. Today it started bike for first time, I rode to petrol station and got a No-Start,  then it started second push of button.   Then after my ride with everything hot I tried starter twice back at home and both times it turned over and  engine fired quickly like a good'un.

ECU had been flashed by Tod in SoCal so the 1200 starts quickly and straight to a rock steady idle.

Tony
Back to Top
TooJuicy View Drop Down
Senior Member
Senior Member
Avatar

Joined: 06 May 2015
Location: Guildford, Surr
Status: Offline
Points: 759
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote TooJuicy Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 17 Nov 2021 at 22:26
Originally posted by Brian UK Brian UK wrote:

Yes, I do mean the pivot on the solenoid to pinion operating arm. But first of all make sure the plunger is clean, and the inside of the solenoid body. Sticky grease in there affected mine.

Ok thanks for confirmation.  I'll remove the solenoid and clean up the movement inside.

Tony
Back to Top
Mike H View Drop Down
Senior Member
Senior Member
Avatar

Joined: 21 May 2014
Location: East Anglia
Status: Offline
Points: 8733
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Mike H Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 18 Nov 2021 at 14:34
Silly question time - have you checked for loose or dirty or bad connectors - the 'it doesn't work then it does' suggests this. Or even the starter button. 


"Chicken nuggets don't dance on a Tuesday."
Back to Top
Brian UK View Drop Down
Moderator Group
Moderator Group
Avatar

Joined: 13 May 2014
Location: Surrey
Status: Offline
Points: 17641
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Brian UK Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 18 Nov 2021 at 15:19
When it goes clunk but doesn't start, but you get another clunk as you hit the kill switch it means the button etc is working fine, but the solenoid isn't pulling in enough to make the big contact at the end.
Various reasons for this.
1. the pinion won't mesh with the starter ring, thus stops it going full travel.
2. not enough volts to the solenoid coil, so it doesn't pull in completely - your wiring mod should have stopped this possibilty.
3. something else is preventing the solenoid from going to the contacts, and this could be sticky grease on the plunger, which I had once.

But I suggest you also have a look at the "how to test a starter motor" topic in the electrical section.
Brian.

Better 5 minutes late in this world than years early in the next.
Back to Top
theone&onlymin View Drop Down
Senior Member
Senior Member


Joined: 14 May 2014
Location: United Kingdom
Status: Offline
Points: 2072
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote theone&onlymin Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 18 Nov 2021 at 20:14
Whatever you do, don't hit it ! Think that's right Brian, if it's a Valeo.


Cheers
Min




Edited by theone&onlymin - 18 Nov 2021 at 21:31
Back to Top
Brian UK View Drop Down
Moderator Group
Moderator Group
Avatar

Joined: 13 May 2014
Location: Surrey
Status: Offline
Points: 17641
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Brian UK Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 18 Nov 2021 at 21:04
Swearing at it in Italian might help, but if it's a valeo starter, the last thing you should ever do is hit it. Those magnets are not that well glued in and hitting usually releases them.
Brian.

Better 5 minutes late in this world than years early in the next.
Back to Top
theone&onlymin View Drop Down
Senior Member
Senior Member


Joined: 14 May 2014
Location: United Kingdom
Status: Offline
Points: 2072
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote theone&onlymin Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 18 Nov 2021 at 21:30
I'm only used to a Bosch so I am.

Cheers 
Min
Back to Top
red leader one View Drop Down
Senior Member
Senior Member
Avatar

Joined: 07 Oct 2014
Location: Cullercoats
Status: Offline
Points: 4466
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote red leader one Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 18 Nov 2021 at 23:22
Can you Bosch them?
Back to Top
Ken-Guzzibear View Drop Down
Moderator Group
Moderator Group
Avatar

Joined: 13 May 2014
Location: Sileby Leics
Status: Offline
Points: 9454
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Ken-Guzzibear Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 19 Nov 2021 at 17:35
The Bosch starter is way more robust in my experience it will withstand much more churning over tried a valeo on the V1000 yes it worked but sounded awful 

To be fair they use Bosch starters on Merc Sprinters and they need a fair bit of churning on a cold morning
The Older i Get, The Better I Was
Back to Top
TooJuicy View Drop Down
Senior Member
Senior Member
Avatar

Joined: 06 May 2015
Location: Guildford, Surr
Status: Offline
Points: 759
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote TooJuicy Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 20 Nov 2021 at 22:47
Thanks for all your suggestions.  I suspect the problem lies with the action of the solenoid somehow - when I press the starter button  & kill button  the solenoid is activated & deactivated, so the solenoid is being switched on and off electrically.  My next step is to remove the stater to "service" the solenoid plunger and the starter connections will be examined while the starter is off.  I favour inactivity as the culprit since the problem has arisen after 18-month Covid enforced lay-up. 

I have not looked to see which make of starter is fitted, but its a 2012 1200 engine.

Presently all work on bike is suspended while I'm on family duties hundreds of miles from base. 

Appreciate the support & ideas.

Tony
Back to Top
Brian UK View Drop Down
Moderator Group
Moderator Group
Avatar

Joined: 13 May 2014
Location: Surrey
Status: Offline
Points: 17641
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Brian UK Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 21 Nov 2021 at 09:33
Actually it probably is a late Bosch, but they have permanent magnets fitted too, so always the possibilty of them being damaged with hitting the starter.

As a point of information for all, you should never need to hit it to make it work. If it doesn't work then there is a fault which should be rectified.
Brian.

Better 5 minutes late in this world than years early in the next.
Back to Top
 Post Reply Post Reply Page  <123
  Share Topic   

Forum Jump Forum Permissions View Drop Down

Forum Software by Web Wiz Forums® version 12.03
Copyright ©2001-2019 Web Wiz Ltd.

This page was generated in 0.078 seconds.