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G5 owner on suicide watch!

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FlyingTiger View Drop Down
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    Posted: 19 Feb 2019 at 22:10
Gents,
I have spent probably 20 hours trying to sort my perishing electrics out but am prostrating myself before your collective wisdom and am now pleading for your help!Cry
Ok dramatics over but i have genuinely tried my best to resolve it. I am not a sparks expert but have always worked things out in the end, but not this time, at least so far anyway. You may recall it had a twin headlamp fairing when i bought it and also had extra indicators and fogs on the panniers. I stripped the fairing and additional electrics off and put the loom back to drawing.....well clearly not quite!
The list of symptoms are as below;

IGNITION OFF

1.hazard switch operates rear flashers and hi beam dash light flashes
2. Left indicator switch operates left rear and both front flashers. Also left dash warning light and hi beam dash lights, both flashing.
3. Right indicator switch gives same as (2) but right rear flasher instead or left.
4. Pilot light switch operates the pilot light, both flasher and hi beam warning lights and the rear light
5, main light switch on gives no lights but the indicators will work properly but with an assortment of warning lights

IGNITION  SWITCHED ON

1. same symptoms as 1-3 above
2. Same as 4 but with headlamp warning light showing
3. Lights fully switched on gives all lights (both front beams very dim), and all 4 indicators glowing solidly

I can't figure out how power is getting to the system without the ignition on. Curing that would probabl cure most issues i think.

I have checked and re checked the wiring so many times i can no longer see the wires from the trees so any suggestions would be most welcomed.  
Your time in consideration of my problem would be much appreciated and probably allow me to put my belt and shoelaces back onLOL!

Thanks in advance for any help guys

Best regards,  mark
Mark Serj
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Ianboydsnr View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Ianboydsnr Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 19 Feb 2019 at 22:27
sounds like an earth problem, 

Some circuits are powered without the ignition switched on, so don’t worry about that
Hazards,
Rear brake light,
Pilot lights
Possibly the indicators

It will backfeed circuits from the brake light as well

Try earthing the front indicators directly, that is open the indicator and earth direct to the fitting.


Edited by Ianboydsnr - 19 Feb 2019 at 22:35
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Dave P. View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Dave P. Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 19 Feb 2019 at 23:14
Can't help with the wiring I'm afraid but I do appreciate the gallows humour.
TO LIVE OUTSIDE THE LAW YOU MUST BE HONEST.

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FlyingTiger View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote FlyingTiger Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 20 Feb 2019 at 07:19
Originally posted by Ianboydsnr Ianboydsnr wrote:

sounds like an earth problem, 

Some circuits are powered without the ignition switched on, so don’t worry about that
Hazards,
Rear brake light,
Pilot lights
Possibly the indicators

It will backfeed circuits from the brake light as well

Try earthing the front indicators directly, that is open the indicator and earth direct to the fitting.
 
Thanks Ian, Can I ask what feedback from the brake circuit means please?
I will try the direct earthing idea tonight.
 
Cheers
 
Mark
Mark Serj
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Brian UK View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Brian UK Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 20 Feb 2019 at 08:58
This does sound like an earth problem. Check all your earths to the frame and make sure they are clean and bright. Then add some grease to stop the rust.

Check the indicators have a good earth, and the rear light cliuster too.
There is also an earth to the dash area. This can often be the cause of odd problems.

Once you have gone through all that, come back and tell us what still doesn't work, and we'll all come and remove your belt and shoelaces permanently.
Brian.

Better 5 minutes late in this world than years early in the next.
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FlyingTiger View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote FlyingTiger Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 20 Feb 2019 at 09:58
Ha ha thanks Brian!
 
I have resorted to wearing slip ons and elasticated waistband trousers.....nice!
 
My frame has been powder coated but I made sure I had earth points masked off as am aware of the new paint / no earth scenarioWink.
 
I guess there may be 'natural' (i.e. no wires) earth points that I may have over looked so will review all of these possibilities tonight......might put the bubbly on ice for later.....!
 
Cheers for now
Mark Serj
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote FlyingTiger Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 20 Feb 2019 at 10:02
BTW just thinking about it, if some of the circuits didn't have an earth, wouldn't they not work?  E.G the 4 indicators glowing with the lights on - wouldn't this mean they are getting power from the lighting circuit somehow?
Mark Serj
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Brian UK Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 20 Feb 2019 at 10:04
They should earth through the stem and to the frame. Check there is an earth path to the frame.


Brian.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Jools Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 20 Feb 2019 at 13:50
It's an earthing problem for sure - guess how I know?!

I gave up using the frame as an earthing point years ago, it's just too flaky. Ever since then I've run a separate earth to EVERYTHING on all my bikes (mostly ancient Brits), going right back to the negative terminal on the battery (or rather the positive for the Triumph and Royal Oilfields). 

A few more wires certainly, but the electrics have been 100% - even the lights dispense more than a warm brown puddle on the road!

BTW - those bikes I've kept with the standard 6-volt system have had their wires uprated to x 2 the original core diameter. This alone gives x 4 less resistance,  a significant factor when dealing with such small voltages. 
Jools

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote FlyingTiger Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 20 Feb 2019 at 15:01
Careful guys, I'm starting to feel positive.....scuse the pun!!Clap
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Ianboydsnr Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 20 Feb 2019 at 16:03
back feeding is where two circuits are connected together after the switch, like the two brake light switches are, the front feed is from the dash area and key operated, so if you press the foot brake, then the hand brake, circuits connected to the dash feed will energise,

As I said, connect a fly lead from the negative to the side of the bulb, if your earth is missing then it should work,


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Ianboydsnr Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 20 Feb 2019 at 16:10
M
Originally posted by FlyingTiger FlyingTiger wrote:

BTW just thinking about it, if some of the circuits didn't have an earth, wouldn't they not work?  E.G the 4 indicators glowing with the lights on - wouldn't this mean they are getting power from the lighting circuit somehow?

The power is trying to return to Earth, it’s travelling through the bulbs of the indicators to earth, because difficult though that is, it’s the best earth it has, and the bulbs are simply a resistance, if the resistance was higher, the indicators wouldn’t work, but neither would the headlight

It’s probably a bad earth to the headlamp area, and at a guess its  back feeding the indicators through the earth cluster of wires that work the indicator display and headlight display on the dash, to the four indicators and then onto earth.

These are ideal for troubleshooting earth issues,


You connect to the battery and you can have power or earth at the point, and its protected, so you can’t let the smoke out.


Edited by Ianboydsnr - 20 Feb 2019 at 16:24
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FlyingTiger View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote FlyingTiger Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 20 Feb 2019 at 16:22
I was right with you up to the second use of the word earth........Tongue!!
 
Joking aside, I will be earthing the living daylights out of it tonight....keep an ear open for whoop whoops!!!
Mark Serj
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Chris950s Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 20 Feb 2019 at 18:04
When I had my frame powder coated before about 30 years ago, I made all earths via wires to engine or gearbox. I have node points in the headlamp shell that connect to the 15 pin plug and from there to another node point near the coils and new relays, this connects to the top of the gearbox under the battery and connects everything aft of that including the main earth from the battery to the frame. Main earth wires are quite thick. Never had any earthing problems after that.
Chris and Karen - Essex
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote FlyingTiger Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 20 Feb 2019 at 22:59
whoop whoop!,!.,!

One earthing wire from the headlamp  shell  bringing  together  the  pilot, headlight and dash lights to earth on the frame and it ALL WORKS!

At least i got the loom rebuild right!

A thousand thanks  guys. A great lesson for future  restos. So kind  of you all to take the time to help.
What a great forum.

No where did i hide those laces and my belt as these slip ons and elasticated trousers are so last century??!!!
Mark Serj
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