Brake Link Front/Rear |
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Mike H
Senior Member Joined: 21 May 2014 Location: East Anglia Status: Offline Points: 8733 |
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It's been done - can't remember what on tho - but was for track competition. |
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"Chicken nuggets don't dance on a Tuesday."
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telegraphroad
Senior Member Joined: 21 May 2014 Location: M11 J8 Status: Offline Points: 204 |
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My Monza has de-linked brakes - it came that way. I am very happy with the braking performance but I have not ridden a V50/35 with original linked brakes so can't comment on the differences. The front brake is very progressive and confidence-inspiring with a medium weight action. The rear brake requires a stomp to lock up the rear wheel which seems to me the right way to do it. I particularly like the way the rear brake on its own tends to stabilise the bike which I find useful as you can retain a small degree of rear wheel trail braking as you come off the front brake into a corner. For all I know you can achieve the same thing with the linked brakes anyway.
My VFR has a more high-tech implementation of linked brakes and applying the front brake applies a bit of rear brake in proportion to the front braking effort. Applying the rear brake applies a bit of front brake through a proportioning valve with a short time delay. Breaking feels very secure but I don't get the same feeling of response when I blend from front to rear as I do on the Monza. So that's a +1 for de-linked brakes from me. In an emergency situation, with panic braking, I have no doubt that a linked system would provide better/safer results. Hmmm, sounds like a +1 for linked brakes. I guess on balance I'm neutral then. |
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V50 Monza
VFR 800FI Herts / Essex border |
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GC888
Senior Member Joined: 21 Dec 2015 Location: Manchester UK Status: Offline Points: 174 |
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Thanks thats useful info - do you still have OEM cylinders and callipers?
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iansoady
Senior Member Joined: 23 Jul 2017 Location: Redditch Status: Offline Points: 2402 |
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I'm sure that's true. However, for people who regularly also ride bikes without linked brakes, to train the responses to automatically use the foot pedal could easily be fatal. I'm happy to keep the linked brakes on my V50 but am improving the feel of the front by fitting the smaller diameter master cylinder so that it gives a better response. |
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Ian
1952 Norton ES2 1986 Honda XBR500 1958-ish Greeves/Triumph in progress |
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Motty
Senior Member Joined: 03 Jun 2015 Location: South England Status: Offline Points: 269 |
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Could you keep us updated as to what you use and if it improves the feel of the brake? |
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It’s more fun to try to ride a slow bike fast .....
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telegraphroad
Senior Member Joined: 21 May 2014 Location: M11 J8 Status: Offline Points: 204 |
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Sorry, I don't. The bike had already been delinked when I got it. |
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V50 Monza
VFR 800FI Herts / Essex border |
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iansoady
Senior Member Joined: 23 Jul 2017 Location: Redditch Status: Offline Points: 2402 |
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Yes Motty, it's an 11mm item from a Honda 600 Silverwing. I worked out what would fit by looking here: http://www.stuff4bikes.co.uk/front-brake-master-cylinder-repair-kit-honda-vt125-c1-3-shadow-01-04-22796-p.asp to find all the bikes that overhaul set fitted then doing an ebay search.
I do have the list of bikes somewhere (but it won't be exhaustive). |
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Ian
1952 Norton ES2 1986 Honda XBR500 1958-ish Greeves/Triumph in progress |
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Oafski
Senior Member Joined: 15 Nov 2014 Location: Waltham Cross Status: Offline Points: 257 |
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I had a 1937 500 Rudge and that had linked brakes back in the sixties and from memory they worked quite well by the standards of the day.
I also have a Nissin 11mm bore Master Cylinder from a Honda NTV 650 which I mistakenly thought would be an adequate replacement for the Brembo 13mm one on my CB500, should somebody want to make me an offer for it. |
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OCD- Old Coffin Dodger
"Good Deeds never go unpunished" Fat bloke on a Honda |
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iansoady
Senior Member Joined: 23 Jul 2017 Location: Redditch Status: Offline Points: 2402 |
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Why did it not work on the CB500 - twin discs?
Guzziology has an excellent section on working out master:slave proportions by area and suggests between 20 and 30 is ideal. The 11mm with the single V50 caliper gives around 18:1 IIRC - 10mm would be better but harder to get. |
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Ian
1952 Norton ES2 1986 Honda XBR500 1958-ish Greeves/Triumph in progress |
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Oafski
Senior Member Joined: 15 Nov 2014 Location: Waltham Cross Status: Offline Points: 257 |
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No Single Disc but Brembo Caliper has 30 and 32 mm pistons while the Nissin fitted to the previous years model were 27mm. Brake was still rubbish with Brembo Caliper and it turned out the Pads were contaminated, so the Nissin might have been ok after all as it scored over 90% on the MOT with the iffy pads.
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OCD- Old Coffin Dodger
"Good Deeds never go unpunished" Fat bloke on a Honda |
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GuzziPaul
Senior Member Joined: 10 Oct 2015 Location: Essex Status: Offline Points: 219 |
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The only time i think there would be a need for de-linked brakes would be braking on a greasy/gritty surface where there could be more chance of the font wheel locking up. I have a LM1 and an Aprilia Tuono (and a DT175MX) the only thing the two big bikes have in common is they are V twins and Italian.
On the Tuono I use the hand brake more with just a bit of back brake (unless down hill into a wet hairpin at Stelvio or similar). On the LM I use the footbrake virtually all the time apart from really trying hard to outbrake myself when a bit of additional help is required. My right hand need as much help as possible after keeping the throttle open so the footbrake is a relaxing option.
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Tony_B
Falcone Joined: 12 Jun 2016 Location: UK Status: Offline Points: 64 |
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Actually I am sure I read on this or the club forum that someone was racing a Guzzi WITH the linked brakes. I don't have a very good memory so can't remember which.
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iansoady
Senior Member Joined: 23 Jul 2017 Location: Redditch Status: Offline Points: 2402 |
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I have an idea it was Dr John Wittner although could be wrong. It's in Guzziology somewhere.
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Ian
1952 Norton ES2 1986 Honda XBR500 1958-ish Greeves/Triumph in progress |
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Tony_B
Falcone Joined: 12 Jun 2016 Location: UK Status: Offline Points: 64 |
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No Ian, it was a current rider I was talking about. (ps - nice to see a familiar name from another forum !).
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Rumpith
Guzzino Joined: 27 Jun 2018 Location: Wirral Status: Offline Points: 6 |
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Ian,
I have just purchased a V50 3 which has had the brakes de-linked. The feeling on the front brake lever is a bit dead and it takes a good squeeze to haul up the bike. This is not the power I was expecting and I have read elsewhere that an 11mm piston is needed at the master cylinder. I was interested to know how well the silverwing master cylinder fitted with the guzzi switch gear. Could you post a picture of the master cylinder as fitted to our bike please.
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Rumpith
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