guzziriders.org - moto guzzi forum Homepage
Forum Home Forum Home > Social section > The Bar.
  New Posts New Posts RSS Feed - ETHANOL
  FAQ FAQ  Forum Search   Events   Register Register  Login Login

ETHANOL

 Post Reply Post Reply Page  123>
Author
Message
Dave P. View Drop Down
Senior Member
Senior Member


Joined: 12 Jan 2015
Location: Northants
Status: Offline
Points: 2550
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Dave P. Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Topic: ETHANOL
    Posted: 05 Oct 2018 at 11:40
ETHANOL.

As yet I've not experienced any ethanol related problems with my Guzzis maybe because I use the "super" varieties of petrol. But none the less I found this article very interesting and informative.


https://armchairbiker.com/ethanol-in-petrol-what-classic-bikers-need-to-know/
TO LIVE OUTSIDE THE LAW YOU MUST BE HONEST.

1971 V7 Special. 1972 850GT.
1970 T120 Bonnie. 2009 500 Bullet.
Back to Top
Mike H View Drop Down
Senior Member
Senior Member
Avatar

Joined: 21 May 2014
Location: East Anglia
Status: Offline
Points: 5963
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Mike H Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05 Oct 2018 at 23:21
Yes very interesing!

"Chicken nuggets don't dance on a Tuesday."
Back to Top
Brian UK View Drop Down
Moderator Group
Moderator Group
Avatar

Joined: 13 May 2014
Location: Surrey
Status: Online
Points: 9628
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Brian UK Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05 Oct 2018 at 23:40
My Norge fuel tank must be a couple of litres bigger now.
And Guzzi say the Norge is ethanol proof.
Brian.

Better 5 minutes late in this world than years early in the next.
Back to Top
c13pep View Drop Down
Senior Member
Senior Member
Avatar

Joined: 31 Aug 2017
Location: Doncaster
Status: Offline
Points: 427
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote c13pep Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06 Oct 2018 at 11:21
That article certainly makes you think but maybe Brexit will allow UK to not be bound by EU regulation, who knows!!

I know from my time at BMW that there were problems with plastic car petrol tanks `softening` and distorting for some reason
CHRIS
you can`t have any fun in a straight line

Monza project
BMW R1150RT
Back to Top
Dave P. View Drop Down
Senior Member
Senior Member


Joined: 12 Jan 2015
Location: Northants
Status: Offline
Points: 2550
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Dave P. Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06 Oct 2018 at 11:25
Ethanol is dodgy stuff. I had one too many ethanols in the pub last night and have woken up with a headache.
TO LIVE OUTSIDE THE LAW YOU MUST BE HONEST.

1971 V7 Special. 1972 850GT.
1970 T120 Bonnie. 2009 500 Bullet.
Back to Top
TooJuicy View Drop Down
Senior Member
Senior Member


Joined: 06 May 2015
Location: Guildford, Surr
Status: Offline
Points: 454
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote TooJuicy Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06 Oct 2018 at 12:09
Originally posted by Brian UK Brian UK wrote:

My Norge fuel tank must be a couple of litres bigger now.
 
How has that expansion affected the fit & finish of the tank? I have come across a Breva/Sport where the handlebars/clamps hit the tank on full lock.
 
The tank on my 1200 Sport (same part as Norge?) began to distort - evidenced by difficulty in fitting rear bolt and then "cracks"/blemish lines in the paintwork.
 
Story from dealer was Guzzi were now buying tanks with a new, more resistant plastic compund. I'm sceptical of course and wonder how much of that is Marketing. Either way I now run the fuel in my (new) tank as low as possible when I'm not using bike. Previously I left the tank full, a legacy of previous bikes with metal tanks.
 
Tony
Back to Top
Brian UK View Drop Down
Moderator Group
Moderator Group
Avatar

Joined: 13 May 2014
Location: Surrey
Status: Online
Points: 9628
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Brian UK Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06 Oct 2018 at 12:31
Not affected the paintwork.
Had to file off the back corner of the top yoke/handlebar casting to help it clear the tank, but there is a mark on both sides. Also had to file the rear hole to get the bolt in.
Brian.

Better 5 minutes late in this world than years early in the next.
Back to Top
BobV7 View Drop Down
Senior Member
Senior Member
Avatar

Joined: 20 Nov 2014
Location: W. Sussex
Status: Offline
Points: 2065
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote BobV7 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06 Oct 2018 at 12:43
Now on my third tank experience shows that unsurprisingly the tank slumps down slightly and expands length ways so the bolt holes won't line up. You can get the bolt to screw in but only by levering it with a long extension and socket. I preferred to stick a metal plate over the top of the bracket and drill a fresh hole so I can get a 6mm locknut on the end of a bolt. Fortunately there was just enough room to miss the welded on nut from the original fixing under there which shows how much the tank had stretched.

Can't really forgive Piaggio for making such a stupid decision to use plastic when ethanol was such a widely know problem. I know they replaced the tank twice under warranty but each time cost me time and aggravation, (and that was after having the engine replaced for a serious oil leak). Surely this must make me either the most patient or stupid Piaggio consumer ever, or maybe now at my age I can just shrug my shoulder and say, "Ah, so what!".Hug
V7 Classic Black and gold is the best colour
Back to Top
Brian UK View Drop Down
Moderator Group
Moderator Group
Avatar

Joined: 13 May 2014
Location: Surrey
Status: Online
Points: 9628
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Brian UK Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06 Oct 2018 at 12:48
But think of all those owners having problems now after the warranty period has ended.
My tank was fine for years, then suddenly decided to expand. As far as I know same fuel source.

Brian.

Better 5 minutes late in this world than years early in the next.
Back to Top
BobV7 View Drop Down
Senior Member
Senior Member
Avatar

Joined: 20 Nov 2014
Location: W. Sussex
Status: Offline
Points: 2065
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote BobV7 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06 Oct 2018 at 14:08
Unable to see the reasoning behind supplying a replacement in the full knowledge it was doomed to fail I did badger Piaggio over quite a long period trying to get them to supply a metal tank. No joy from that as Piaggio claimed it would be impossible to fit one to my model with the fuel pump being in a different place. Sounded like a load of bollocks to me and I had intended to press on with a claim, but then I suddenly had more pressing appointments with some chemotherapy and a soggy fuel tank became somewhat less important. I'm amazed that those extremely litigious bunch in the US didn't try to force Piaggio to replace the defective parts, or maybe they did and didn't bother to tell the rest of us?
V7 Classic Black and gold is the best colour
Back to Top
TooJuicy View Drop Down
Senior Member
Senior Member


Joined: 06 May 2015
Location: Guildford, Surr
Status: Offline
Points: 454
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote TooJuicy Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06 Oct 2018 at 16:50
Originally posted by Brian UK Brian UK wrote:

But think of all those owners having problems now after the warranty period has ended.


It is scandalous really, making bikes in knowledge or even suspicion t he petrol tanks not fitting after a while.

Fair play to Piaggio though, they gave me a new tank out of warranty ex-gratia, I  had only to pay the labour charge. I believe because I've always had the Guzzi serviced by a Guzzi dealer. 

Tony
Back to Top
iansoady View Drop Down
Senior Member
Senior Member
Avatar

Joined: 23 Jul 2017
Location: Birmingham
Status: Offline
Points: 914
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote iansoady Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07 Oct 2018 at 10:08
I don't actually think it's ethanol.

When I had my Tiger 955i with a plastic tank it was well known that if you took the tank off when it was full of petrol and left it for any length of time the fittings wouldn't line up as the tank would distort. And that was early 2000s well before ethanol arrived.
Ian
1982 V50
1952 Norton ES2
Back to Top
BobV7 View Drop Down
Senior Member
Senior Member
Avatar

Joined: 20 Nov 2014
Location: W. Sussex
Status: Offline
Points: 2065
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote BobV7 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07 Oct 2018 at 11:00
Oh well that settles it then, the whole ethanol debated has been proved to be a myth. Your experience with one poorly designed fuel tank from Triumph and all the problems suffered by any number of other motorcycle owners and manufacturers obviously count for nothing. Unbelievable.Stern Smile
V7 Classic Black and gold is the best colour
Back to Top
c13pep View Drop Down
Senior Member
Senior Member
Avatar

Joined: 31 Aug 2017
Location: Doncaster
Status: Offline
Points: 427
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote c13pep Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07 Oct 2018 at 11:30
Of course, at the minute, we could all run on premium petrol with no Ethanol in it to ease the problem but even that looks to be doomed long term.

CHRIS
you can`t have any fun in a straight line

Monza project
BMW R1150RT
Back to Top
BobV7 View Drop Down
Senior Member
Senior Member
Avatar

Joined: 20 Nov 2014
Location: W. Sussex
Status: Offline
Points: 2065
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote BobV7 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07 Oct 2018 at 11:50
Hi Chris
There is problem with that, and that is many owners of newer machines have reported issues of poor running on premium grade fuel simply because the engines are not designed to use it. It's OK for the owners of older machine that will run on any old fuel but times have moved on a bit since they first trundled out of the factory.

The problem with ethanol fuel can easily be establish by simply taking out the rear mounting bolt of any new plastic fuel tank that has been filled with it. No need to remove the tank but when you try to put the same bolt back in again you won't be able to do it because you'll find the holes no longer line up. Please don't take my word for it, ask someone like Baldric or any other experienced Guzzi mechanic.
V7 Classic Black and gold is the best colour
Back to Top
 Post Reply Post Reply Page  123>
  Share Topic   

Forum Jump Forum Permissions View Drop Down

Forum Software by Web Wiz Forums® version 12.00
Copyright ©2001-2018 Web Wiz Ltd.

This page was generated in 0.047 seconds.