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Electrical but not as we know it....

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Mike H View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Mike H Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 24 Mar 2020 at 22:57
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There are a lot of conversations on DIY / building forums about similar issues....

Vindicated.


OK what you got is for outdoor use of power tools, so has to be isolated from the mains proper, and the centre-tap to earth means only 120V off of each end so if grabbed by accident won't kill.

Assuming there's an earth return to your feet of course. Big smile



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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote iansoady Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 25 Mar 2020 at 10:17
Always wear my wellies.....

One of the brighter spots of this problem is that I have now learnt the difference between RCDs and CBs. It appears that each individual circuit (lights, sockets etc) has an individual circuit breaker (which are the things that are tripping) but the whole shebang has an RCD which I assume is a sort of backup. So the garage is fed by a CB on the main house board and that feeds a small board with an RCD and 2 CBs, one for lights one for sockets. When it trips the garage socket one goes as well as the garage CB on the house board so the garage lights go off as well.


Edited by iansoady - 25 Mar 2020 at 10:20
Ian
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Brian UK Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 25 Mar 2020 at 21:49
Ah, that's not what we thought you were saying to start with.

The RCD is not tripping then, just the Circuit Breakers??

That would then just be the high current drawn on start up.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote iansoady Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 26 Mar 2020 at 10:26
Yes, apologies for misleading people (when I started this I didn't know the difference between RCDs and CBs - hopefully up to speed now).

TBH I'm not sure whether the RCD on the garage sub board was tripping or not. Hopefully the surge suppressor will help.....
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Brian UK Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 26 Mar 2020 at 10:35
Given that the lathe motor is only 350W, a 500W transformer would suffice.

Might be worth having a punt at something like this.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote MartinC Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 26 Mar 2020 at 11:13
Circuit breakers are graded in B, C, D grades like a B6 for house lighting or a B32 for house sockets. In heavier use in industrial places they would be C or heavy power drain D rated breakers, motor circuits use D rated breakers as do any transformer type cir units as the start up current 'surges' before settling down. If a D rated breaker is used in the house for the garage feed then this should withstand the initial surge and in theory not trip, any decent ele trial wholesaler will advise you on this, B rated breakers are the least type for current draw, C rated are medium and D rated for power demand, hope this helps. If you have a D feeding a B/C breaker then the. D should not trip before the B. Think of it like plastic and steel. 
Cheers Martin
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote iansoady Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 26 Mar 2020 at 11:55
Many thanks both. Something to keep our minds occupied while we're not riding!

Brian: if the inrush protector doesn't work then that would be a good alternative. I did have a quick look on ebay but didn't come across that one.

Martin: Yes, that's what I've come to realise - I seem to have the B rated breakers in both positions. Photos show these. Is changing B to C or D a simple plug & play? I'm always very wary of mains electricity after seeing a competent (well qualified anyway) electrician blown off a ladder in my apprentice days.

house:


garage:


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote MartinC Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 26 Mar 2020 at 13:23
Turn off the fuse board,
Remove the garage breaker, usually screw at the top for cable, screw at the bottom for connection to the busbar. 
Take to a electrical wholesaler and ask for a D rated breaker.
Fit In fuseboard reverse of taking out.
When all connected get the wife to turn back on 😁😁😁
You can put the electric back on while you go to the shop if you put the cover back on. 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Brian UK Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 26 Mar 2020 at 14:16
That's if you can find an electrical wholesaler open of course. 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Brian UK Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 26 Mar 2020 at 14:21
Screwfix sell C rated ones.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Mike H Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 26 Mar 2020 at 16:24
Just a note, the inrush limiter will most likely get bluddy hot in use so some care is needed where and how it's installed, for example it may melt plastic wire insulation or sleeving, probably. Also risk of burns (to skin or things).




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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote iansoady Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 26 Mar 2020 at 16:45
Thanks Mike, noted.
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