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Clutch problem

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Modorado View Drop Down
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    Posted: 30 Nov 2020 at 21:34
Hi, I’m new to the forum and just got my first moto guzzi, a 1973 850 GT.wanted one of these since I was a teenager and finally got to own one. I bought it online from a guy who owned it for 15 years and rode it regularly, it’s had gillardoni barrels and pistons installed and has 77000 Kim’s showing on the speedo. I think it’s a police model judging by the dash but I’m no expert on these. When it arrived it would only run on the right cylinder and after spending a few evenings going through the electrics and carbs it turned out to be a faulty spark plug that would fire fine in open air but not inside the cylinder. Anyway, thought it was good to go but the clutch was slipping so badly I had to really rev it to get it to go at all. Read online about the white spirits trick and rinsed it 3 times with a pint of ws. Since doing that I have no clutch at all basically, I can put it in first and stop it with my feet. So I thought maybe it was badly adjusted and followed Greg benders instructions on adjusting it. I adjusted the pivot lever at the gearbox first and I have it right back at the frame now and taking up the cable slack with the other adjuster by the gearbox. Still the same though. 
I know it looks like I’ll have to tear it apart and replace the clutch but thought I’d check here if you guys have any advice before I do that. E previous owner was riding it 2 weeks ago and said it ran really well. Could the clutch have just gone like that? 

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Dave P. View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Dave P. Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 30 Nov 2020 at 22:05
With the clutch cable disconnected do you have clearance between the actuating arm at the back of the gearbox and the thrust (throw out)bearing? It sounds as if your clutch is disengaged because of pressure on the clutch pushrod.See below,a quote from GUZZIOLOGY.


As well as tightening the cable, normal clutch wear can, on many models, eventually back the clutch arm up against something solid so that even with a properly adjusted cable the clutch is subject to excessive wear and slippage.

Richardson, Dave. Guzziology Version 9 (p. 302). Kindle Edition.

Edited by Dave P. - 30 Nov 2020 at 22:21
TO LIVE OUTSIDE THE LAW YOU MUST BE HONEST.

1971 V7 Special. 1972 850GT.
1970 T120 Bonnie. 2009 500 Bullet.
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Ken-Guzzibear View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Ken-Guzzibear Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 30 Nov 2020 at 22:23
If you have checked everything the only result left is a clutch job. Some times if the clutch has gone or extremely worn then the white spirit will not help at all but if it is a build up of gunge in there and everything else is ok all will be well. it can be a do or die, but as long as everything is adjusted correctly 
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Modorado View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Modorado Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 30 Nov 2020 at 22:23
Hi Dave,
Thanks for the quick reply. That’s exactly what it feels like, as if the clutch isn’t releasing fully. Do you mean clearance between where the adjuster bolt goes through the pivot arm and the point it makes contact with? If so I don’t think there is a gap there but I’ll check in the morning to be sure. 
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Dave P. View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Dave P. Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 30 Nov 2020 at 22:32
There should be clearance there.Is the end of the actuating arm touching the frame at all?
TO LIVE OUTSIDE THE LAW YOU MUST BE HONEST.

1971 V7 Special. 1972 850GT.
1970 T120 Bonnie. 2009 500 Bullet.
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Modorado View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Modorado Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 30 Nov 2020 at 22:33
Hi ken, it sounds like a new clutch is on the cards alright. The white spirits actually made it worse.. it was smelling like fish after a test run before the ws but at least that went away a bit then.. I assume the fishy smell was the clutch burning?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Modorado Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 30 Nov 2020 at 22:35
I have it adjusted as far back as it will go, so just touching the frame. The adjusting bolt is all the way in leaving just enough thread for the locking nut to seat..
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Dave P. View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Dave P. Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 30 Nov 2020 at 22:42
I would back the adjusting bolt off a bit to make sure it's not pressing on the thrust mechanism and try again.The smell from the clutch COULD be because it's slipping due to being partially disengaged.
Or it could be that the clutch is worn out; which seems unlikely if the previous owner is telling you the truth.

By the way, we like pictures. Well I do anyway.

Edited by Dave P. - 30 Nov 2020 at 23:18
TO LIVE OUTSIDE THE LAW YOU MUST BE HONEST.

1971 V7 Special. 1972 850GT.
1970 T120 Bonnie. 2009 500 Bullet.
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Modorado View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Modorado Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01 Dec 2020 at 10:37
Hi Dave,
I only have dirty photos at the moment, haven't even gotten a chance to wash her yet.
Here's one from underneath, just noticed the split pin is missing from the pivot lever. Are you saying there should be a gap where that spring is?

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Modorado Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01 Dec 2020 at 10:38
Here's a photo of the cable end:

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Modorado Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01 Dec 2020 at 10:40
Here she is:

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johnno View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote johnno Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01 Dec 2020 at 10:50
She looks great hope u sort clutch soon Thumbs Up
1100 sport corsa , Yam R1, guzzi 650tt rider
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Modorado View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Modorado Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01 Dec 2020 at 11:09
Thanks, me too. 
If I do end up replacing the clutch I'm thinking all I need are 2 clutch plates and 8 springs? Is there anything else I should change while I'm that far into the bike, bearings/seals etc? There seemed to be a bit of oil in there when I did the white spirits wash, could there be a seal leaking?  
The clutch alignment tool is out of stock there, is it necessary? Don't suppose there's any chance of borrowing one from someone?


Edited by Modorado - 01 Dec 2020 at 11:50
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Ken-Guzzibear View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Ken-Guzzibear Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01 Dec 2020 at 13:46
From your pics the spring goes where the gap is on the little lump into the wee round casing.

OK undo the lock nut and screw the pin out, there needs to be a gap, can't remember the number out of my head but screw that pin out so the end of the arm will move in towards the cable it ought to be looking level with clutch cable so sort of 90 deg to casing ...

Suggest you loosen cable right off, then undo lock nut screw our the adjuster so arm is set right , pop spring into its correct setting Screwing the adjuster out moves the end of the arm towards the casing looks like you have it the wrong way so putting pressure on clutch centre.

Should you redo clutch you can take off gearbox sprocket and use that to centre the clutch , worth getting a new sprocket nut and lock ring tho' ...Assuming the internals are the same as the Tonti bikes 

The clutch adjustment often gets new to Guzzi folk xways ....once the arm is set then use cable to get 2mm free play .....start at arm end then do cable last 
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Brian UK View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Brian UK Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01 Dec 2020 at 13:51
The arm should be at about 90 degrees to the cable direction.
You doo need to unscrew that adjuster to allow the arm to come forward a bit.
Brian.

Better 5 minutes late in this world than years early in the next.
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