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Click No Crank fixed (seems to be)

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TooJuicy View Drop Down
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    Posted: 24 May 2022 at 17:34
I suffered the Click No Crank issue end of last year.  Altho the solenoid was partially throwing so it was more accurately Clank No Crank.   To cut to the chase, a new solenoid appears to have fixed the problem.

In more detail the bike is a 2013-ish 1200 Sport.  About 8 years old and 22k miles and the Click No Crank Pop Goes The Fuse problem reared its head.  I soon became adept at hitting the Kill button immediately after the Starter button Disapprove

The bike had been treated to the much recommended supply-side wiring loom mod from new.  After help from this forum I tried the simple thing first, I modded the solenoid switch ground/earth lead with a direct and beefed up wire.  Unfortunately the problem continued despite the solenoid switch now having its own dedicated wiring circuit.

For those interested, it was a Bosch starter motor unit.  I decided to take the Bosch unit to someone who would know more than me about such things, to a local distributor of electrical parts near me.  The starter motor was whisked off to their workshop - and I heard they had 2 similar motors on their bench exhibiting the identical intermittent starting problem.  

As an aside these other Bosch units were more likely from BMWs, the earlier R1200 use a near-identical starter unit as my Moto Guzzi,  with a sequential Bosch part number,  and there is a BMW main dealer and hundreds of BMW R1200 on the road (or not!) where I am.

Back to the story, the workshop diagnosed an intermittent failure in the solenoid.  Bad news is Bosch don't sell the solenoid on its own.  The good news is that after a lot of comparing specifications the workshop successfully sourced a pattern part. 

Since refitting the Bosch starter with its new solenoid the bike has started every time.  I now no longer hold my breath when thumbing the start button. 

Interestingly subsequent Guzzi forum (not this one) searches came across another thread with a failing Bosch starter that was diagnosed post mortem as a solenoid failure.

Who fixed my starter?   S.E.D. Ltd based in Guildford, Surrey.  I believe they have a depot in Andover too.   

How much did it cost?   That's a moot point.  They charged me just £30 - but it took them several weeks to diagnose then identify a pattern replacement and I may have received a healthy discount because they took so long.

What is the replacement solenoid?   Made (in Brazil) for Wood Auto, part number SND11029.  I don't see any way of buying Wood Auto parts, they may be a supplier to the electrical industry only. 

Tony



Website of S.E.D. Guildford (Southern Electromotive Distribution):-

Original thread:-


Edited by TooJuicy - 24 May 2022 at 17:45
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote TooJuicy Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 24 May 2022 at 17:39
Shiny new solenoid not Bosch


the Wood Auto part



Wood Auto website part detail



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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote TooJuicy Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 24 May 2022 at 17:40
Hope this helps someone before they resort to a new bike or a new starter unit (-/- £300)

Tony
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote guzzwiz Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 24 May 2022 at 18:56

Thanks a lot for this valuable information! But as far as I can see this solenoid does not fit the older BOSCH starter models used in the early Tonti V2's. 
I just did a little web research and found a source for it here in Germany, 31.60€ incl. VAT
The supplier (specialised in utility and construction vehicles, boat engines, etc.) quotes it as suitable for
  • Autostarter Poland --- SS0211 (BOSCH)
  • Bosch --- 2339304020
  • Bosch --- 2339304025
  • Bosch --- 2339304062
  • Eurolec-HCUK --- 20096
  • Wood Auto --- SND11029
  • Zm --- zm-373
Rudi
presently a modified 1000G5 and a V7classic; (V50PA sold)
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote TooJuicy Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 24 May 2022 at 19:43
Rudi,  thank you for the update.

Do you have a weblink to the solenoid supplier in Germany?

I'm hoping never to need another Bosch starter solenoid but it is useful to have potential sources documented.

Regards
Tony
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Brian UK Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 24 May 2022 at 21:35
Wood auto are possibly one of the best sources of Bosch parts in the UK.
Brian.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote TooJuicy Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 24 May 2022 at 21:48
Purely an aside but from what I can see, in 2014 BMW dropped the Bosch starter motor in the R1200 and fitted their new LC version R1200 engines with Denso starters.

From photographs the Bosch starter on the pre-LC R1200 looks the same as the Bosch starter fitted to the 1200 Guzzi excepting the position of the solenoid switch earth/ground terminal - not that I've been able to physically compare the two units.  The long Bosch part numbers are only one digit different.

Tony
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote guzzwiz Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 24 May 2022 at 21:51
Originally posted by TooJuicy TooJuicy wrote:

Rudi,  thank you for the update.

Do you have a weblink to the solenoid supplier in Germany?

I'm hoping never to need another Bosch starter solenoid but it is useful to have potential sources documented.

Regards
Tony


Actually, I found a second one.
https://dmt-onlineshop.de/Kfz-/Nfz-Technik/HC-CARGO/Starterersatzteile/Magnetspulen/12-V/Magnetschalter-Passend-fuer-Bosch-2339304020-2339304025-2339304062-Eurolec-HCUK-20096-Wood-Auto-SND11029::125249.html
https://wagendass.com/en/solenoid-relay-for-bosch/1276-solenoid-for-starter-bosch-0001116001.html
presently a modified 1000G5 and a V7classic; (V50PA sold)
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Glawster Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 25 May 2022 at 09:33
Another recommendation for Bosch starter motor repairs / reconditioning.  The Starter Bay in Gloucester overhauled my V7 Sport starter and replaced the solenoid.  Excellent service.
1973 Guzzi V7 Sport
1955 Guzzi Falcone Sport
2021 BMW R1250R
1955 Moto Parilla 175 Lusso Veloce
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote Ken-Guzzibear Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 25 May 2022 at 12:26
Guys copy the parts to the alternative parts section very useful information
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote guzzwiz Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 25 May 2022 at 15:01
Originally posted by Glawster Glawster wrote:

Another recommendation for Bosch starter motor repairs / reconditioning.  The Starter Bay in Gloucester overhauled my V7 Sport starter and replaced the solenoid.  Excellent service.

Imho the V7 Sport originally had a very odd Bosch starter, without a solenoid. The armature engaged itself into the starter gear ring by a special helical mechanism, like the old Bendix starter of Ford's Model T. Instead by the solenoid the motor current was controlled by a large relay, mounted above the starter.
This device was known to be too weak, even in brand-new state. Most V7 owners soon exchanged it with the later Bosch type. 


Rudi


Edited by guzzwiz - 25 May 2022 at 15:09
presently a modified 1000G5 and a V7classic; (V50PA sold)
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TooJuicy View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote TooJuicy Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 25 May 2022 at 20:30
Originally posted by Ken-Guzzibear Ken-Guzzibear wrote:

Guys copy the parts to the alternative parts section very useful information

Done
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote TooJuicy Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 25 May 2022 at 22:40
Originally posted by guzzwiz guzzwiz wrote:



Rudi

Rudi, thank you for posting this picture of the original V7.  Such a beautiful bike.  For me one of the most attractive bikes made by Moto Guzzi, and I say that even though as a teenager the 750 S3 was my Poster bike.

Lovely motorcycle.

Tony
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Brian UK Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 26 May 2022 at 06:47
The Bendix type starter motor was in very common use on petrol engines in the 1960/70s with a remote starter solenoid. The pre-engaged type came in later. What Guzzi fitted on those early models was quite common.
Brian.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Glawster Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 26 May 2022 at 09:52
Originally posted by guzzwiz guzzwiz wrote:

[QUOTE=Glawster]Another recommendation for Bosch starter motor repairs / reconditioning.  The Starter Bay in Gloucester overhauled my V7 Sport starter and replaced the solenoid.  Excellent service.

Imho the V7 Sport originally had a very odd Bosch starter, without a solenoid. The armature engaged itself into the starter gear ring by a special helical mechanism, like the old Bendix starter of Ford's Model T. Instead by the solenoid the motor current was controlled by a large relay, mounted above the starter.
This device was known to be too weak, even in brand-new state. Most V7 owners soon exchanged it with the later Bosch type. 


Yes Rudi, my lightweight starter motor is long gone.  I have the regular heavy weight Bosch starter with solenoid.  Cue gratuitous photos of V7 Sport!

20210626_115807 by Derek Wardell, on Flickr
1973 Guzzi V7 Sport
1955 Guzzi Falcone Sport
2021 BMW R1250R
1955 Moto Parilla 175 Lusso Veloce
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