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Click but no start Griso 1200 8V

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RDMinor View Drop Down
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    Posted: 28 Jul 2020 at 22:19
I know this topic in one form or another appears to have been done to death but I have what I think is a new twist or at least a monkey wrench making a good solution all that much more difficult. This is a bit long but that's what monkey wrenches do to projects and their descriptions so bear with me.

I've been reading Brian's posts on another similar thread but that devolved into a comparison of BMW's and other bikes and was all set to start replacing the problem light gauged wires with more appropriate heavier gauged stuff when it became obvious on close inspection that my 2010 Griso's wiring bore almost no resemblance to that found in the factory service manual and the owners equally thick manual.

Wanting to make this repair/upgrade only one time it was my intention to replace the orange/yellow wiring between relays 2 & 3 and the solenoid with a heavier gauge wire and follow that up with replacing the yellow wire (or as much as made sense and was doable) from the 15amp fuse at B in the fuse block at 22 also with a heavier gauge section better able to take the load over time.

Unfortunately what should be relay #3 in the diagram is wired in a way that isn't even close to the manual and is in fact wired unlike any other relay anywhere else on the bike in any circuit !! Not only that but it has no yellow/orange wires (there should be 2) and no all yellow wire either !!

The other same type relay at that position on the bike is labeled as the light logic relay is wired correctly so two of the three relays shown in that group are wired per the manual.

At this point I guess in for a penny in for a pound and I'll just have to dissect the harness enough to try to see if whoever built my particular harness grabbed whatever color wires were handy and what comes out of this mystery relay does indeed connect to #2.

According to the schematic relay #3 has only one wire connecting to something other than relay #2 and that goes to #5, the "right light switch", by which I assume they mean the starter button/kill switch. The other 3 wires in relay #3 are a yellow and 2 orange/yellow which go to relay #2. Unfortunately in my case what I suspect is relay #3 has NO YELLOW wires and NO ORANGE/YELLOW wires...and no yellow/red either for that matter. As I said it's wired like no other relay in the entire bike. Oh what fun.

Any ideas or previous experience would be helpful.

The oddball relay is wired thusly.....R/N...Ar/V...R/M...Az/Bi and I've been unable to find any relay so wired.

My body is old but my head isn't and I've been a gearhead since a very young age.

Current ride is a 2010 Griso 1200 8V
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Brian UK View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Brian UK Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 28 Jul 2020 at 23:00
Firstly can we confirm this is the wiring diagram you have. If not, then being coloured, it might help.

The wiring looms will be made up as a complete unit, probably bought in by Guzzi, so highly unlikely that there would be an oddball one in there.

Secondly, replacing the yellow wire from the fuse (B) is no great help as most of the problem is the fact that the supply to fuse B goes via the ignition switch, and the contacts in that are not really up to the current the starter solenoid takes. This is why we suggest you disconnect the yellow wire from the relays, and tape it up so it can't short out anywhere, then run a new heavy gauge wire from the relays back to the battery positife, preferably via an inline fuse, rated at 15 or 20 Amps.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote RDMinor Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 29 Jul 2020 at 01:33
Brian, without scanning every circuit that's the same schematic that I have.

I realize that the harness as a sub-assembly was VERY unlikely to have been made up of odds and ends but it is possible that since I was the second owner of this Griso that the previous owner had also had a no start problem and tried to rewire the system himself. Otherwise I can't think of a reason why I would have a relay located in the same location where the schematic shows #2, #3, #5, #6 with wiring that not only doesn't match the maintenance relay but that of no other relay in the entire system.

Of the 3 relays and 1 switch in the group above I have #2, #5, & #6 wired as the schematic shows they should be but the remaining one, which should logically be #3, has not one single wire correct and matches no relay or switch shown anywhere on the schematic.

At this point regardless of what I do about the yellow I have to dissect the harness enough to try to figure out what this mystery relay does or where it goes before I can figure out how to handle the rest.

My body is old but my head isn't and I've been a gearhead since a very young age.

Current ride is a 2010 Griso 1200 8V
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Brian UK Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 29 Jul 2020 at 10:18
Assuming you haven't dismantled anything yet, turn on the ignition, put your hand on that relay and press the start button. If it is the start relay you will feel it operate.

If you don't feel anything, turn off the ignition then with hand on relay turn on again. Does it operate then?
If not try operating the dip switch, and so on until you get somewhere.

It is just possible a previous owner did have the start problem and bought one of the early kits from Guzzitech, which had an extra relay in them. But I don't know what colour wires would have been used. That kit was altered later and the superfluous relay was removed.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Brian UK Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 29 Jul 2020 at 10:53
If anyone with a Griso knows where the various relays are situate, it would be useful to have that information.
Brian.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote RDMinor Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 30 Jul 2020 at 19:25
I haven't dismantled anything yet as I'm old enough to have learned rapid isn't always the smart move. Too many re-dos and busted knuckles in my youth.

Schematics are always a dicey piece of work since they aren't position specific in relation to the unit or even with each other. In my case there's a disconnect that causes some confusion in that the parts manual clearly shows that there are FOUR relays in the very same section of harness. When you go to the schematic for reference you'll only find a total of 3 actual relays plus a couple of wiring runs to other non-relay assemblies. It really gets bad however when you actually go where the service manual tells you the 3 relays are and in fact find there are indeed 4 relays to deal with. It becomes a take-off over the old pea under which shell in the shell game.

On my 2010 Griso the actual start-up relay was in position #2 as the schematic made note. That is followed by my 'mystery relay' in schematic position #3 with wiring that matches no other relay in the entire schematic. That was followed by the light logic relay in what I'll refer to as position #4 instead of position #6 as the schematic shows. Of course pos. #4 in the schematic isn't a relay at all but the clutch switch. The same goes for position #5 as that's the start and kill switch on the right handlebar.The Maintenance start-up relay comes next in line and is about as far from #2 as it could be on that section of harness.

Now that I've figured out where the secondary start-up relay is I can plot a course to correct the problem and hopefully not screw it up in translation. My 'mystery relay' will have to remain a mystery for awhile longer since I think it plays no part in the problem.

I do have one other question of anyone who knows the secret. Every connector I've ever run across has a way in which the actual metal connectors housed in them can be removed without destroying the housing. The more robust ones designed to be almost indestructible and immune to the vagaries of weather and climate maybe tough but the ones used on the Griso aren't of that type. Not having one already taken apart it's hard to see what they used as a lock/latch or how to undo it.

I'm not talking about separating the 2 pieces of the connector but rather the metal pieces that nake the actual splice inside them.
My body is old but my head isn't and I've been a gearhead since a very young age.

Current ride is a 2010 Griso 1200 8V
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Brian UK Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 30 Jul 2020 at 21:56
Is your mystery relay wired into the loom, or does it have wires which are not a part of the main loom, which would suggest a later addition.
Brian.

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