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California insurance scam

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caswain View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote caswain Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Topic: California insurance scam
    Posted: 04 Mar 2018 at 14:42
I normally renew my insurance at the Edinburgh show Eye ball to eye ball on the MCE stand but because it was canceled due to the weather I had to do it on line and on the dog bone yesterday and found something that puzzled me
This applies in the UK but may be relevant in other parts of the world
I went on to the compare the market and other insurance sites for a quote on my bike insurance

If you have a California SE like I do make sure you inform them as most sites only have a drop down box for the none SE version or if you put your registration number in it will come back as a standard California 1400

the interesting thing is I saved over £120 on my insurance because it is a SE version not the standard, Why I have no idea as the only difference is the paint work, I checked with my motorcycle dealer and I was correct that the UK market only got the SE version in 2017

Even if it says on your V6 certificate it's the California 1380 technically its the SE version and insurance companies are taken advantage of this out of your pocket.

Can anyone come up with a reasonable answer to why insurance would be less for the SE version when the only difference is the two tune paintwork as it would be more expensive to repair if damaged

Insurance companies are beyound me !
also has any one else come across this on other makes and models of bikes

don't get scamed by them like I very nearly did Wink
 
Moto Guzzi California 1400 SE
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magwa View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote magwa Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05 Mar 2018 at 10:08
My insurance company charged me £50 as my motoguzzi sport has a custom gulf paint finish as opposed to the standard black.



to the mods

I think this thread is in the wrong section
should be in the BAR
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iansoady View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote iansoady Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05 Mar 2018 at 10:30
I don't think it's a scam as such just incompetence.....

Most of the people who work in brokers don't have a clue. One reason I use Peter James as their staff are (mostly) very knowledgeable.
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Mike H View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Mike H Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05 Mar 2018 at 21:50
Bizarre, would have thought it's the other way round, they'd want more cos it's "Special Edition"



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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Omobono Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10 Mar 2018 at 20:30
I would not say it's any kind of bad faith. Brokers like "compare the market" scour the market for the best deal and their survival as a business model depends on their ability to find deals good enough for enough people without having to go to a "manual" search with a "flesh and bone" broker.
 
The difference in price is most likely to do with the claims statistics, which are seen differently from every insurer. For example, it can be that for the SE version (introduced only last year) there isn't enough of a claim databank and some insurer insurer apply cheaper "standard" or "average" claims criteria, whilst for the standard version there is more claim statistics and the price is adjusted accordingly. This is only one of the many scenarios available, as every insurer decides his own risk criteria. You can, however, be sure of one thing: it's just not happening that all insurers meet together and decide "we are going to be cheaper for the buyers of 2017 models, but we all agree that the 300 (if any) buyers of California in 2016 will have to pay £120 more, or no business".
 
Another likely cause (if the two quotes were from two different companies, perhaps even if they were from the same company) is that one provider likes the risk of the most recent model more. For example, the risk department of insurance A could say "we want to focus our risk on people able to fork £16,000 for a bike bought this year or last year because we think that, in this postcode, the incidence of fraud is much lower; we will progressively increase the premium for older bikes because for that particular postcode we see the risk of fraud increasing as the age of the bike goes up". Instead, Company B thinks "we don't want to spend for a postcode by postcode risk analysis, but we are fine with clients who have bought their bike in 2014-2016 provided they had no claim, and we will bid aggressively on that risk group to get the kind of risk we want".  
Many other variations are possible.

I have, also this year, experienced the difference than an engaged "manual" underwriter can make. For my BMW I could not find anything below £720 (main reason: bike is kept in a rented garage away from home; I fear being a 2014 "keyless drive" also plays a role) whilst last year (bike worth more) I paid "only" £500. This, searching online by all major brokers, including Bennett and Carole Nash. 

When I phoned Carole Nash and asked for a quote on the phone they gave my case to a manual underwriter because they were getting no offers at all; the underwriter posed a lot of questions about where my garage is etc, spoke to providers and got me an excellent quote at £522 including the usual European breakdown cover, which I did not have last year. However, last year the same manual underwriters at Carole Nash failed to get me anything below £900 whilst Bennett (also manual underwriter) got me the £500 one without the European breakdown cover. This shows either the changes of insurers in their panels, of the changes of risk policies of single providers in their panels, or the different degrees of ability of the brokers. Another option is that Carole Nash has an insurer which thinks "I don't want anyone who has just bought a £11,000 used bike because I don't know if he is a fraudster; but if he has had his bike for one year without claims I will blow the competition out of the water because that one is a client I absolutely want". 

Bottom line: there are as many ways to measure risk as there are hairs on your head. Every insurer tries to direct his risk toward the risk (the bikers and the bikes) they like most for a certain price. The result is a highly competitive, but highly confusing market requiring time and effort to get the best deal for certainly everyone who does not have "standard" requirement (you have a very expensive bike, I have a garage away from home with a keyless bike, apparently a higher risk at least for my model).  

I hope this helps

O


    


  

 


Edited by Omobono - 10 Mar 2018 at 20:35
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Jerry atric View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Jerry atric Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10 Mar 2018 at 21:46
Very enlightening, thank you.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote caswain Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10 Mar 2018 at 22:54
Omobono thanks for that info, you sound as if your in that line of work

Also remember I mentioned about the web sites, now there desighners need to learn a lesson in up dating there data base on bike models as I said a lot of the sites don't have my specific model SE
and owners of this model will without knowing just put California touring in the drop down box and pay the premium price.

A few years ago I to was having trouble getting insurance for my bike because I told them it was kept in a steel garage and the insurance companies did not like that.

As it was an Asguard purpose built motorcycle garage with insurace aproved locks costing over £1500 and not just a tin shed I decided to make a video of what it would take for a potential bike thief to break in and take a bike, the insurance companies saw fit to reduce the price of the policy.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote johnno Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11 Mar 2018 at 07:20
Originally posted by Jerry atric Jerry atric wrote:

Very enlightening, thank you.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Omobono Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11 Mar 2018 at 07:27
Many thanks and it is a pleasure to be able to be, for once, the one who can help rather than the one who asks for help... Tongue
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Ken-Guzzibear Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11 Mar 2018 at 08:15
It is fascinating one other bike they got wrong on nearly all databases put in Guzzi V1000 most only show "convert" go to 1000 and there is a list but NO G5 look you will see what was a typo way back when Norwich Union created the listings wrongly copied as GS instead of G5 ...This info was actually given to me by an underwriter when I first insured my V1000 G5 way back in 1989 ........
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Ianboydsnr Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11 Mar 2018 at 12:15
Originally posted by Ken-Guzzibear Ken-Guzzibear wrote:

It is fascinating one other bike they got wrong on nearly all databases put in Guzzi V1000 most only show "convert" go to 1000 and there is a list but NO G5 look you will see what was a typo way back when Norwich Union created the listings wrongly copied as GS instead of G5 ...This info was actually given to me by an underwriter when I first insured my V1000 G5 way back in 1989 ........


When I insured my convert, it came up as a GS.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Jerry atric Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11 Mar 2018 at 15:50
Try insuring a Scott Non of them have it. Just in case you had never thought about it, Alfred Scott patented the kick start and telescopic forks among many other inovations.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote iansoady Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11 Mar 2018 at 15:51
I'd be surprised if Peter James couldn't do it. There are far more Scotts around than there were my Sunbeam Model 10 and they coped with that very happily....
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Jerry atric Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11 Mar 2018 at 16:14
He does do it but doesn't have a value for it. Its on my certificate as unlisted or something similar
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote iansoady Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12 Mar 2018 at 11:20
But presumably you can have an agreed value for the Scott?

I did notice that when my Sunbeam first went onto the "Ask MID" database it was listed as something very peculiar and continued to be so for some time. Perhaps they use the same database that doesn't recognise the Scott.

I did check with PJ and they assured me it was correctly recorded.
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