guzziriders.org - moto guzzi forum Homepage
Forum Home Forum Home > Technical > CARC models
  New Posts New Posts RSS Feed - Breva 1200
  FAQ FAQ  Forum Search   Events   Register Register  Login Login

Breva 1200

 Post Reply Post Reply Page  <123>
Author
Message
Brian UK View Drop Down
Moderator Group
Moderator Group
Avatar

Joined: 13 May 2014
Location: Surrey
Status: Offline
Points: 10167
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Brian UK Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04 Mar 2019 at 21:49

This is the diagram for the Norge, Sport 1200 and Breva 1200.
Item 3 is the start relay. Note the wiring colours and only 4 connections.
Brian.

Better 5 minutes late in this world than years early in the next.
Back to Top
Howard6040 View Drop Down
Falcone
Falcone
Avatar

Joined: 02 Mar 2019
Location: Uk
Status: Offline
Points: 16
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Howard6040 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05 Mar 2019 at 07:39
The relay was black about 1.5 inch square. Numbers on the front 12v made in spain,DIRA001, ARA840010-71. The reverse side was white and the 4 protruding spade connectors were numbered 
85,87,86,30 clockwise. The 4 wires coming in fit in a 4 way white plastic connector which I haven't taken apart.Does this help?
Back to Top
Howard6040 View Drop Down
Falcone
Falcone
Avatar

Joined: 02 Mar 2019
Location: Uk
Status: Offline
Points: 16
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Howard6040 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05 Mar 2019 at 07:44
Thanks for the diagram Brian very useful .Will study
Back to Top
Howard6040 View Drop Down
Falcone
Falcone
Avatar

Joined: 02 Mar 2019
Location: Uk
Status: Offline
Points: 16
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Howard6040 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05 Mar 2019 at 08:12
Getting there slowly.looks as though I have been looking at relay 29 according to the wire colors! Will investigate further.You've been very helpful Brian please bear with me I will crack this!
Back to Top
Brian UK View Drop Down
Moderator Group
Moderator Group
Avatar

Joined: 13 May 2014
Location: Surrey
Status: Offline
Points: 10167
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Brian UK Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05 Mar 2019 at 08:21
You should be able to tell which relay by putting your finger on each one in turn as you try to start. You will feel the click.

Fuse blowing. When you press the start button do you just hear a clunk and nothing more? If so immediately flick the start button out to the kill position. This will prevent the fuse from blowing.
Brian.

Better 5 minutes late in this world than years early in the next.
Back to Top
Howard6040 View Drop Down
Falcone
Falcone
Avatar

Joined: 02 Mar 2019
Location: Uk
Status: Offline
Points: 16
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Howard6040 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05 Mar 2019 at 08:27
You could be right. Because my relay has the correct pin numbers I assume it is the ignition relay and the wires are coloured differently as you say. Is there a test I can apply?
Am thinking I should open up the incoming  plastic connector to see if there is a pin 85 to 87 loop?
Back to Top
Howard6040 View Drop Down
Falcone
Falcone
Avatar

Joined: 02 Mar 2019
Location: Uk
Status: Offline
Points: 16
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Howard6040 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05 Mar 2019 at 08:29
Will do the test you mention
Back to Top
Brian UK View Drop Down
Moderator Group
Moderator Group
Avatar

Joined: 13 May 2014
Location: Surrey
Status: Offline
Points: 10167
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote Brian UK Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05 Mar 2019 at 09:50
Your relay does not have the right pin numbers for a Breva. They use different relays normally.
Before you do anything, confirm which relay is the start one.
Brian.

Better 5 minutes late in this world than years early in the next.
Back to Top
johnno View Drop Down
Senior Member
Senior Member


Joined: 19 Jul 2014
Location: loughborough uk
Status: Offline
Points: 3642
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote johnno Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05 Mar 2019 at 10:30
Originally posted by Brian UK Brian UK wrote:

Your relay does not have the right pin numbers for a Breva. They use different relays normally.
Before you do anything, confirm which relay is the start one.
why are you so awkward Howard lolThumbs Up
GSXR1100 L ,Moto Guzzi .750xpa,.1100 sport,1100 sport corsa rider
Back to Top
Howard6040 View Drop Down
Falcone
Falcone
Avatar

Joined: 02 Mar 2019
Location: Uk
Status: Offline
Points: 16
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Howard6040 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06 Mar 2019 at 13:53
Hi Brian, taken time out to reflect on starter electrics. Tried finger on each of 4 relays, no click on starting.This doesn't help.Meanwhile been changing all brake and clutch fluid.It needed doing as it was very dirty! Managed to enter access code on dash (breva same as norge) so another problem solved.Bike has been starting ok recently. Spoke to a biker friend who has a 10 plate norge.he was aware of the fuse blowing problem and his approach is novel.he calls it his 'get out of jail card'because fuse has blown at critical places ie on /off ferries!firstly thoroughly clean the terminals on the starter motor and solonoid .He  has actually replaced his solenoid for a heavy duty one. Then run a heavy duty wire from the starter via a online fuse to a push switch under the seat then run a wire to the battery. He then has an emergency start if the starter fuse blows. In eight years he has only used it 3 or 4 times. However before any long run he always tests the emergency start. I quite like this approach. Belt and braces perhaps but re assuring.
Back to Top
Brian UK View Drop Down
Moderator Group
Moderator Group
Avatar

Joined: 13 May 2014
Location: Surrey
Status: Offline
Points: 10167
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Brian UK Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06 Mar 2019 at 18:08
The pull in coil on the solenoid takes around 25 Amps. Normally it is only for a very short time and is shorted out when the main contacts are made. But if battery volts to the solenoid are low for any reason, then it takes significantly longer for the solenoid to pull in, and this gives the fuse enough time to heat up and blow.

Reasons why there are low volts to the solenoid.
Battery in poor condition.
Poor connection in the wiring to the relay.
Small gauge wiring.
Also that current goes via the ignition switch contacts, and it's doubtful that they are rated for 25 Amps.

For this reason we suggest a new heavier gauge wire from the battery direct to the start relay. Some have also increased the gauge of wire from the start relay to the solenoid.

Remember all resistance creates voltage drop over the length of the circuit and it doesn't take much to reduce it to the point where the solenoid doesn't pull in fully.

I have known owners who fitted a wire from the battery and left the end close to the solenoid so in emergency they could just touch it on the connector.

The other sure fire way is to bridge from the top terminal bolt on the solenoid to the spade terminal. That will always spin the engine unless there is a fault with the solenoid or starter motor.
Brian.

Better 5 minutes late in this world than years early in the next.
Back to Top
Howard6040 View Drop Down
Falcone
Falcone
Avatar

Joined: 02 Mar 2019
Location: Uk
Status: Offline
Points: 16
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Howard6040 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06 Mar 2019 at 19:18
Thank you for the scenario s on starter problems. Am going to check firstly the battery condition by getting a deep test on it and replace if needed , then examine and clean the starter and solenoid terminals After which decide whether to fit an emergency starter or try to do the mod to the starter relay.
Once again thanks for your help and will let you know how things pan out.
Back to Top
TooJuicy View Drop Down
Senior Member
Senior Member


Joined: 06 May 2015
Location: Guildford, Surr
Status: Offline
Points: 500
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote TooJuicy Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07 Mar 2019 at 16:14
I've seen several (long) diagnoses of starter problems on this forum ,where the battery tested good, but ultimately after days of testing fitting a new battery solved the issue.  I'm a believer in new batteries, for 65 bucks from Amazon.com or £90 in England they're good value for money - it costs me more than that to fill up my darned truck!! Wink

Tony
Back to Top
Brian UK View Drop Down
Moderator Group
Moderator Group
Avatar

Joined: 13 May 2014
Location: Surrey
Status: Offline
Points: 10167
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Brian UK Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07 Mar 2019 at 16:26
To be honest, I think it's often a combination of causes. Certainly the battery is one.

Bear in mind these batteries are small and marginal to start with. All batteries lose capacity in Amp hours over time, so any battery from around 3 years old is likely to be at the point where it displays problems, and it could be sooner than that.
Gone are the days when big batteries were fitted which often lasted 6 or 8 years.
Brian.

Better 5 minutes late in this world than years early in the next.
Back to Top
OldJohnboy View Drop Down
Senior Member
Senior Member
Avatar

Joined: 16 May 2014
Location: St.Albans
Status: Offline
Points: 172
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote OldJohnboy Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07 Mar 2019 at 23:41
Brian wrote -

' Gone are the days when big batteries were fitted which often lasted 6 or 8 years.'

Well that does not bode well for the projected electric vehicle revolution, does it? Shocked
Back to Top
 Post Reply Post Reply Page  <123>
  Share Topic   

Forum Jump Forum Permissions View Drop Down

Forum Software by Web Wiz Forums® version 12.00
Copyright ©2001-2018 Web Wiz Ltd.

This page was generated in 0.047 seconds.