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Brake Link Front/Rear

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Mike H View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Mike H Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 25 Oct 2017 at 21:15
Originally posted by Barry Barry wrote:


I mean, you could always consider converting the shaft drive to a chain drive,

It's been done - can't remember what on tho - but was for track competition.


"Chicken nuggets don't dance on a Tuesday."
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telegraphroad View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote telegraphroad Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 26 Oct 2017 at 02:23
My Monza has de-linked brakes - it came that way. I am very happy with the braking performance but I have not ridden a V50/35 with original linked brakes so can't comment on the differences. The front brake is very progressive and confidence-inspiring with a medium weight action. The rear brake requires a stomp to lock up the rear wheel which seems to me the right way to do it. I particularly like the way the rear brake on its own tends to stabilise the bike which I find useful as you can retain a small degree of rear wheel trail braking as you come off the front brake into a corner. For all I know you can achieve the same thing with the linked brakes anyway.

My VFR has a more high-tech implementation of linked brakes and applying the front brake applies a bit of rear brake in proportion to the front braking effort. Applying the rear brake applies a bit of front brake through a proportioning valve with a short time delay. Breaking feels very secure but I don't get the same feeling of response when I blend from front to rear as I do on the Monza. So that's a +1 for de-linked brakes from me.

In an emergency situation, with panic braking, I have no doubt that a linked system would provide better/safer results. Hmmm, sounds like a +1 for linked brakes.

I guess on balance I'm neutral then.
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GC888 View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote GC888 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 26 Oct 2017 at 09:00
Originally posted by telegraphroad telegraphroad wrote:

My Monza has de-linked brakes - it came that way. I am very happy with the braking performance but I have not ridden a V50/35 with original linked brakes so can't comment on the differences. The front brake is very progressive and confidence-inspiring with a medium weight action. The rear brake requires a stomp to lock up the rear wheel which seems to me the right way to do it. I particularly like the way the rear brake on its own tends to stabilise the bike which I find useful as you can retain a small degree of rear wheel trail braking as you come off the front brake into a corner. For all I know you can achieve the same thing with the linked brakes anyway.

My VFR has a more high-tech implementation of linked brakes and applying the front brake applies a bit of rear brake in proportion to the front braking effort. Applying the rear brake applies a bit of front brake through a proportioning valve with a short time delay. Breaking feels very secure but I don't get the same feeling of response when I blend from front to rear as I do on the Monza. So that's a +1 for de-linked brakes from me.

In an emergency situation, with panic braking, I have no doubt that a linked system would provide better/safer results. Hmmm, sounds like a +1 for linked brakes.

I guess on balance I'm neutral then.

Thanks thats useful info - do you still have OEM cylinders and callipers? 
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iansoady View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote iansoady Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 27 Oct 2017 at 10:46
Originally posted by telegraphroad telegraphroad wrote:



In an emergency situation, with panic braking, I have no doubt that a linked system would provide better/safer results.



I'm sure that's true. However, for people who regularly also ride bikes without linked brakes, to train the responses to automatically use the foot pedal could easily be fatal.

I'm happy to keep the linked brakes on my V50 but am improving the feel of the front by fitting the smaller diameter master cylinder so that it gives a better response.
Ian
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Motty View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Motty Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 27 Oct 2017 at 15:56
Originally posted by iansoady iansoady wrote:


I'm happy to keep the linked brakes on my V50 but am improving the feel of the front by fitting the smaller diameter master cylinder so that it gives a better response.


Could you keep us updated as to what you use and if it improves the feel of the brake?
It’s more fun to try to ride a slow bike fast .....
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telegraphroad View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote telegraphroad Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 27 Oct 2017 at 17:04
Originally posted by GC888 GC888 wrote:

Thanks thats useful info - do you still have OEM cylinders and callipers? 


Sorry, I don't. The bike had already been delinked when I got it.
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iansoady View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote iansoady Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 27 Oct 2017 at 17:05
Yes Motty, it's an 11mm item from a Honda 600 Silverwing. I worked out what would fit by looking here: http://www.stuff4bikes.co.uk/front-brake-master-cylinder-repair-kit-honda-vt125-c1-3-shadow-01-04-22796-p.asp to find all the bikes that overhaul set fitted then doing an ebay search.

I do have the list of bikes somewhere (but it won't be exhaustive).
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Oafski Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 28 Oct 2017 at 12:52
I had a 1937 500 Rudge and that had linked brakes back in the sixties and from memory they worked quite well by the standards of the day.
I also have a Nissin 11mm bore Master Cylinder from a Honda NTV 650 which I mistakenly thought would be an adequate replacement for the Brembo 13mm one on my CB500, should somebody want to make me an offer for it.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote iansoady Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 28 Oct 2017 at 13:57
Why did it not work on the CB500 - twin discs?

Guzziology has an excellent section on working out master:slave proportions by area and suggests between 20 and 30 is ideal. The 11mm with the single V50 caliper gives around 18:1 IIRC - 10mm would be better but harder to get.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Oafski Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 30 Oct 2017 at 10:26
No Single Disc but Brembo Caliper has 30 and 32 mm pistons while the Nissin fitted to the previous years model were 27mm. Brake was still rubbish with Brembo Caliper and it turned out the Pads were contaminated, so the Nissin might have been ok after all as it scored over 90% on the MOT with the iffy pads.
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GuzziPaul View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote GuzziPaul Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 30 Oct 2017 at 11:06
The only time i think there would be a need for de-linked brakes would be braking on a greasy/gritty surface where there could be more chance of the font wheel locking up. I have a LM1 and an Aprilia Tuono (and a DT175MX) the only thing the two big bikes have in common is they are V twins and Italian.

On the Tuono I use the hand brake more with just a bit of back brake (unless down hill into a wet hairpin at Stelvio or similar).

On the LM I use the footbrake virtually all the time apart from really trying hard to outbrake myself when a bit of additional help is required. My right hand need as much help as possible after keeping the throttle open so the footbrake is a relaxing option.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Tony_B Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10 Nov 2017 at 13:04
Actually I am sure I read on this or the club forum that someone was racing a Guzzi WITH the linked brakes. I don't have a very good memory so can't remember which.
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iansoady View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote iansoady Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10 Nov 2017 at 13:25
I have an idea it was Dr John Wittner although could be wrong. It's in Guzziology somewhere.
Ian
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Tony_B Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10 Nov 2017 at 13:36
No Ian, it was a current rider I was talking about. (ps - nice to see a familiar name from another forum !).
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