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Big block oil pressure

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cyclobutch View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote cyclobutch Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02 Nov 2017 at 14:06
Yes it took me two glaces before I thought - F.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Jools Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02 Nov 2017 at 15:44
My sump extension is indeed fitted in the correct orientation - I was careful to check this on assembly. Besides, if it wasn't, I'd have blown up the engine several hundred miles ago as no oil would be circulating at all!

As Brian pointed out, the extension requires the pump to lift the oil an extra couple of inches, which is why I suspected that the change had shown up an already existing problem, i.e. that the oil pump is worn out and the extra strain placed on it has now been revealed.

I used brand-new gaskets from our chief supplier; there were no extraneous bits and pieces on either, and no weaknesses visible.

I'll take it all apart again and check it out in due course. 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Jools Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02 Nov 2017 at 15:51
Oops! Nope, I'm wrong on the oil circulation point! 

Looking again at the pics, of course the oil will still be picked up by the pump. 

Note to self - look properly next time. Stupid boy!
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Brian UK Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02 Nov 2017 at 16:06
So what goes through the two holes that would be misplaced? Feed to the filter and back? If so no oil again.
 
But this is academic, I think you need to check your oil pump.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Jools Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02 Nov 2017 at 16:40
I've never found a diagram that shows the lubrication system, worse luck. 

As far as I can work out, miss-placing the two holes at the back of the sump will not stop oil from circulating (at least partially). The pump will still pick up oil out of the sump through the coarse filter and then push it through the oil filter proper, whereupon the filtered oil then should then go round the engine. However, in this case the oil won't go round the engine but simply drop straight back into the sump.

I think.....
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Gianni Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02 Nov 2017 at 16:51
I don't think the extra couple of inches will make the difference. Remember there is about 50 miles of atmosphere bearing down on the oil as well.
 
In my experience the Tonti oil pumps are incredibly reliable and will continue to operate very efficiently at very high mileages (100k+). There really is not a lot to go wrong with them, the only failure I have ever seen was the needle roller bearing disassembling itself - due to my hamfisted reassembly pushing the Woodruff key into the bearing. The engine did a full oil change cycle before I noticed and was none the worse for it. 
As any engineer would say at this point, what was the last thing you did before the problem manifested? Pull that sump off and triple check the extension orientation, the tightness of the oil filter, and the contents of the sump. Reassemble without the extension and see if the problem goes away. You know it makes sense...
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Mike H Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02 Nov 2017 at 21:18
Originally posted by Jools Jools wrote:

I've never found a diagram that shows the lubrication system, worse luck. 

As far as I can work out, miss-placing the two holes at the back of the sump will not stop oil from circulating (at least partially). The pump will still pick up oil out of the sump through the coarse filter and then push it through the oil filter proper, whereupon the filtered oil then should then go round the engine. However, in this case the oil won't go round the engine but simply drop straight back into the sump.

I think.....

Yes.

The misplaced connection at the rear is the feed to rear c/shaft bearing. But as you say it will just go directly back to the sump. But also it means there's no pressure so it doesn't go anywhere else either. The pick-up then thru the cartridge filter is the only part that will work OK.


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Gianni Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 13 Jan 2018 at 17:53
Did this issue ever get resolved?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote V7Chris Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 14 Jan 2018 at 08:43
Silly question, never having owned a big block. Do you need to increase the quantity of oil with a deeper,extended sump and if you did not, could this also affect the pressure negatively?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Barry Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 14 Jan 2018 at 09:39
Originally posted by V7Chris V7Chris wrote:

Silly question, never having owned a big block. Do you need to increase the quantity of oil with a deeper,extended sump and if you did not, could this also affect the pressure negatively?


With a sump extender fitted, you generally use the exact same amount of oil as without an extender. That is certainly the case with the 'official' Guzzi part (GU14003240 - as illustrated on the Gutsibits.co.uk site).

When the part is manufactured by A.N.Other, you'd need to refer to their documentation, but I've certainly seen instructions related to those parts that convey the same message: same amount of oil, i..e as defined in your workshop manual.

If you fit one, remember that you'll likely need a longer dipstick. Add the measured amount of oil, and mark the dipstick accordingly.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Brian UK Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 14 Jan 2018 at 10:26
The point of the sump extenders is to drop the oil away from the crankshaft, not to increase the quantity of oil.
There is no reason why this should have any adverse affect on oil pressure.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote V7Chris Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 14 Jan 2018 at 10:44
Well in that case, I can definitely confirm on the basis of no particular knowledge at all that the reason for the failing oil pressure is without doubt due to either Brexit or Donald Trump.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Brian UK Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 14 Jan 2018 at 10:55
No, definitely due to a combination of both. Neither could achieve this alone.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote c13pep Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 14 Jan 2018 at 12:38
Originally posted by Brian UK Brian UK wrote:


The point of the sump extenders is to drop the oil away from the crankshaft, not to increase the quantity of oil.
There is no reason why this should have any adverse affect on oil pressure.



Just out of interest why does the oil need to be further away from the crankshaft
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Brian UK Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 14 Jan 2018 at 12:55
If the oil surface level is too close then the movement of the crankshaft can pool the oil to one side.
In extreme situations worse can happen. I recall a BMC engine which suffered crankshaft failures, turned out the marks on the dip stick were too high and the crankshaft was hitting the oil.
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