Anyone ever rebuilt a wiring harness? |
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Ian T
Senior Member Joined: 24 Oct 2019 Location: East Yorkshire Status: Offline Points: 679 |
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Posted: 02 Nov 2019 at 13:19 |
Hi everyone
Well I have built a few bikes, restored a few, crashed a few and buggered up a few in my time, but I have always steered well away from the electrical bits as I just can't me my head around all the black magic and evils. So I have decided to rid myself of these demons and totally build all the harnesses new. I think a peg board approach so I can copy and match will be best. Can't be that hard, can it I've just been reading about this thin wall stuff and there is my first hurdle. So two questions if I may please before I start: 1. Does anyone know please what amperage thin wall cable matches the wiring in the standard loom? 2. Has anyone tried this before and are there any handy hints and tips? The harness is off a V50 ii (1980), and I will be using the Vehicle Wiring Products catalogue and products, unless of course the general recommendations are for some other supplier. Cheers Ian |
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Mike H
Senior Member Joined: 21 May 2014 Location: East Anglia Status: Offline Points: 8733 |
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Yes I have. Yes most wire and connectors were mail ordered from Vehicle Wiring Products (VWP). Also you will need an appropiate crimping tool. Multi-way connector blocks came from eBay I think. I didn't bother with thin wall, decided to just duplicate what was OEM. So as not to introduce any unknowns. I didn't bother with a "peg board" or anything like that. Just took harness off and used directly it as a pattern, simply measure each new wire against the original. I made the mistake of making all the new ones slightly longer, to make sure they reached to wherever, this turned out to often make things more awkward to fit. Will also need large bore sleeving to contain the bundles of wires. Also take lots of photos of the original in situ, amazing how you forget how it's supposed to fit. I found the process quite satisfying to do with a sense of achievement at the end. |
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"Chicken nuggets don't dance on a Tuesday."
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cugsy
Senior Member Joined: 30 Nov 2016 Location: norfolk Status: Offline Points: 958 |
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Lots of labels. Dont make anything off till your 1000% sure. Then crimp away. Get a big sheet of card and tape it down.
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Due to italian electrickery I am saying nowt. Despite nearly giving the Vstrom away the honda has gone...
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Mike H
Senior Member Joined: 21 May 2014 Location: East Anglia Status: Offline Points: 8733 |
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I found I could reuse the special connector block housings, e.g. for the regulator, and the ones at each end of the yellow alternator wires – a small screwdriver down the side to push the locking tab down so the connector can be pulled out, and it's exactly the same (or mine was) as the 6mm female receptacle that comes with a 6mm blade type multi-way plugblock. |
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"Chicken nuggets don't dance on a Tuesday."
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Dave P.
Senior Member Joined: 12 Jan 2015 Location: Northants Status: Offline Points: 5573 |
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Does anyone know please what amperage thin wall cable matches the wiring in the standard loom? Quote.
That should be in your Vehicle Wiring Products catalogue in the wire section near the front. I always just use the bike as a jig when making up a new harness. |
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TO LIVE OUTSIDE THE LAW YOU MUST BE HONEST.
1971 V7 Special. 1972 850GT. 1970 T120 Bonnie. 2009 500 Bullet. |
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AdrianW
Senior Member Joined: 05 May 2019 Location: Bristol Status: Offline Points: 993 |
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I've done the odd British bike, but they are rather simpler than a Guzzi.. Nothing magic about it though, wires simply need to be the right length and connected properly at each end.
Vehicle Wiring Products are a good source.. Must admit British bikes don't handle the current (no stsrters, on mine at least) so have never bothered too much about cable specs. Being a cheapskate I got a towing trailer cable (about 5m in length and cut the ends off - gave me lots of colours to play with.. You often find that the original harness had spare / redundant cables. As others have stated, buy a decent crimping tool, good quality shrink wrap and use lots of lables.. Cheers, Adrian Bristol UK |
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Chris A
Senior Member Joined: 15 Dec 2018 Location: France Status: Offline Points: 330 |
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I did my T3 last year as it has non standard features ...apart from the three cables from the alternator ,the starter motor feeds and the mains from the battery to the ignition switch and then to the fuse box ,I used 16.5 amp thin wall.The bigger cable was the either the 25 or 33 amp .
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TheWrongTrousers
Senior Member Joined: 05 Nov 2018 Location: Somerset Status: Offline Points: 658 |
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It certainly can be done but it is not easy for those to whom matters electrical are not second nature. I replaced so much dodgy old wire in my LM1 that I have a 90% new loom. As Mike says it is very satisfying, but prepare for frustrations. But you need to be very methodical. Here is a link to Greg Benders site where he says something about all this. I found it very inspiring.
I humbly suggest that you pay particular attention to the section entitled "mental preparation" My travails would have been a lot worse had it not been for Greg's words of wisdom. |
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Brian UK
Moderator Group Joined: 13 May 2014 Location: Surrey Status: Offline Points: 17641 |
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Just be aware that max current capacity listed is worked out on the amount the cable heats up. Thus thin wall is rated at a higher current than the older thick wall, as there is less heat insulation so it cools more readily. BUT on low voltage circuits, the voltage drop is far more important and that is never measured. I would always go for heavier wire than their "specification" for this very reason. You stand a chance of a headlight that actually illuminates the road ahead if you do. |
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Brian.
Better 5 minutes late in this world than years early in the next. |
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iansoady
Senior Member Joined: 23 Jul 2017 Location: Redditch Status: Offline Points: 2402 |
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Oh no, I thought as a Velo owner you must be an engineer...... My ES2 came with a similar creative wiring harness. I chucked the whole lot in the bin and started again with the correct colours. Cable from VWP is only about 40p a metre from VWP (I use the 1mm square 16.5 amp stuff for everything on the Norton). Trying to remember which colour you used for what on a dark rainy night isn't my idea of fun......
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Ian
1952 Norton ES2 1986 Honda XBR500 1958-ish Greeves/Triumph in progress |
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AdrianW
Senior Member Joined: 05 May 2019 Location: Bristol Status: Offline Points: 993 |
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Ian,
I'm afraid not !! Vaguely competant mechanic but not an engineer (I was an IT Tech). I have a good friend up the road (Ex RR with a lathe) for that sort of thing !! Haven't touched the wring on either Velo yet although the MSS could probably do with it sometime. They seem to be mainly "any colour as long as it's black" in the wiring department too... I always use domestic yellow/green cable for earth cables. It looks a bit odd but at least I can see them easily. Gives rivet counters apoplexy too.... Cheers, Adrian Bristol UK |
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Ben.
Senior Member Joined: 18 Mar 2015 Location: Lanjaron Spain Status: Offline Points: 937 |
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I'm not in a position to compare crimping with soldering, but all the wiring looms I made for the Avro Vulcan at RAF St Athan were soldered, and much use was made of heatshrink and sleeving. Beneath the outer sleeve, the wires were bound together with repeated loops of cord at one inch intervals.
I didn't grock electricity then and I don't now, so worry not, making looms is a purely mechanical process. If I do crimp, I tin the end of the wire first, but I'm not really sure why ...
Edited by Ben. - 03 Nov 2019 at 12:59 |
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MartinC
Falcone Joined: 26 Sep 2019 Location: Sheffield Status: Offline Points: 53 |
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Take a look on YouTube for the "m-unit" looks quite simple, have done 2 old British bikes but they are very minimal in the wiring stakes. Have used vehicle wiring products in the past with great service.
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AdrianW
Senior Member Joined: 05 May 2019 Location: Bristol Status: Offline Points: 993 |
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On the British stuff I almost always solder connections. Seems a good idea to me to "tin" the wires if you are crimping, stops the strands fraying and breaking individually..
Cheers, Adrian Bristol UK |
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Mike H
Senior Member Joined: 21 May 2014 Location: East Anglia Status: Offline Points: 8733 |
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If you get the correct crimping tool, the correct matching connectors and suitably sized stranded wire, no problem. DO NOT solder tin the wire first, the crimping won't work. The stranded wire has to be able to "squash", that means the individual strands have to move. I think a lot of people are afraid that, because it's not soldered, air and water will get in and cause corrosion. This can't happen if the crimp is properly tight (hence why you need the proper tool. Although I have done it successfully with a combination of pliers, long-nosed pliers and blunted side [wire] cutters). I have used heatshrink for the backs of the connectors in the muilti-way plug blocks, and very useful it is too. |
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"Chicken nuggets don't dance on a Tuesday."
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