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85w 140 oil to stop leaks

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Bushymusic View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Bushymusic Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07 Oct 2015 at 16:24
I love the advice and banter....it's a great help in directing what have to look for and read.
I'm jumping between guzziology and the Haines manual....I think I need the Guzzi workshop manual so I'll order that today.
It takes me a while to get back each time because I'm looking up bits, cross referencing parts and trying to workout what you all are talking about....ha ha.....you must remember a time when it was like that for you....unless you grew up with bikes being pulled apart......splines,crosses,inner races, caps, pivot stubs....each new area has new names, new parts...head scratching and.....hummmm....I'll have a cup of tea and think about that....reread.....I'll sleep on that.....ummmmm I'll get back to you!!!
Black and gold Le Mans mk2 1981


when I'm not sitting on my hands we're a work in progress.
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Bushymusic View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Bushymusic Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03 Feb 2016 at 09:03
Well....I said it would take a while for me to get back....didn't think it would be three month!!!

I'll have to fess up....in the last week of October I got back late in the evening and it was pissing it down, my sheds at the rand of the garden and I walk the bike down a muddy path...I've made a wooden ramp to get the 12inches up into the shed and as I shill had the engine ticking over to run the fuel out the carbs (for smell) and I was wet, I sat on the bike and rode it up the incline.....needless to say with the mud and wet timber the back wheel slid sideways into the corner door jamb, the impact knocked my 35 yrs old workmate over and I and the bike feel on top of it.
Took a good 5 minutes to get the bike up as it was stuck....up shot was I've broken the front fairing , side faitring, scratch and slightly dented the tank and taken the paint off the side panel.
Lots of oil came out the wheel seal.
Back wheel looks wobble now.

So.....apart from my fury at my own stupidity and just plan disappointment at damaging this lovely bike....I just couldn't deal with it over Christmas....then I was abroad in Asia until this weekend so I can now look calmly at her.

Black and gold Le Mans mk2 1981


when I'm not sitting on my hands we're a work in progress.
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Bushymusic View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Bushymusic Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03 Feb 2016 at 09:08
So I've just ordered the wheel seal.

Question:
To take the wheel off seems straightforward.

Take muffle off left side
Loosen off brake assemble
Undo the bolt on the right hand side of axle
Loosen the pinch bolts on the left side holding axle
Knock the axle through.

Then loosen the four bolts holding the bevel box on
Take bevel box to work bench
Follow the racing Rhino "how too from earlier".
Black and gold Le Mans mk2 1981


when I'm not sitting on my hands we're a work in progress.
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Ken-Guzzibear View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Ken-Guzzibear Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03 Feb 2016 at 12:20
if you have no lift I tend to pop the centre stand up onto 3" wood blocks made from off cuts of fence posts, flick sidestand out and lean the bikfrom the right side kckblock under centrestand then go round and do the same the sidestand stops it toppling over 

Wheel out , drain oil undo bottom suspension and the 4 nuts holding bevel box and slide off alot easier to do on a bench flat easier to get old seal out and alot easier to get new seal in without damage
The Older i Get, The Better I Was
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Mike H View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Mike H Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03 Feb 2016 at 13:57
Originally posted by Bushymusic Bushymusic wrote:


Took a good 5 minutes to get the bike up as it was stuck....up shot was I've broken the front fairing , side faitring, scratch and slightly dented the tank and taken the paint off the side panel.
Lots of oil came out the wheel seal.
Back wheel looks wobble now.


HOLY CRAP!!!

Feck feck feck feck and fecking bollox feck.

It'd be enough to put me back onto the anti-drepressant pills. Shocked


"Chicken nuggets don't dance on a Tuesday."
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote TooJuicy Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03 Feb 2016 at 16:12
Originally posted by Mike H Mike H wrote:


PS (edit): I condone the SAE 85W-140, I used this latterly along with about 5cc of double-strength molyslip, the F/D casing was much cooler to the touch just after a long run, whereas hitherto with SAE 90 (and no molyslip), it was almost too hot to touch!
 
Hi Mike - do you believe you actually had a problem?  Gearboxes are happy operating at temperatures well over 100C although the seals may be deteriorating by then if not specified fro high temperature use.  My point is "too hot to touch" is generally considered 43-44C, and research by NASA indicates pain is felt touching aluminium plate at 45C. 
 
What I'm suggesting is that in absence of a definitive reading from an infrared temperature reader your gearbox may have felt hot to the hand but just maybe gearbox was fine & dandy on the specced SAE 90. 
 
Tony
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Mike H View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Mike H Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03 Feb 2016 at 16:33
I didn't measure it. All I knew was, after a good long run with SAE 90, too hot to keep my fingers on.

Then with the 85W-140, plus molyslip, similar mileage, can keep my fingers on.

I merely concluded cooler meant less friction. Which must be good?

"Chicken nuggets don't dance on a Tuesday."
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TooJuicy View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote TooJuicy Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03 Feb 2016 at 16:49
Originally posted by Brian UK Brian UK wrote:

There is also the option of the Redline Heavy or Redline V Twin, both of which act more like grease than oil
 

Brian - not to argue against your advice but that's an interesting comment worthy of its own thread if you like detail. 

 

Grease in composition & content essentially IS oil.  Grease is gear oil that has been bound into a (non-lubricating) carrier such as a lithium paste so the oil will not run away.  Grease can be considered a transport mechanism to get lubricating oil when and where it's needed. Typically a grease by volume is 85% gear oil and 15% carrier.

 

In operation, when bearing surfaces heat up the carrier will absorb the heat and the oil gets released so lubricating the bearings.  This release of the oil is how can grease become exhausted and must be replaced periodically in heavy-duty applications.

 

The interesting side-story stems from the oil being from released the grease carrier by heat.  This explains why bearing manufacturers insist that bearings are not over-packed with grease.  The problem comes from the uninitiated thinking using 100% grease has to be twice as effective as adding 50% grease, but instead the grease will run too hot and the oil will be released prematurely, resulting in less protection not more.  Bearing manufacturers know this. Generally the reason the factory (Luigi) will apply a light layer of grease during assembly is because that is recommended by the bearing supplier as best for the bearing and not because the assembly-line accountant is looking to save 1p in materials.

 

Tony

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TooJuicy View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote TooJuicy Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03 Feb 2016 at 16:55
Originally posted by Mike H Mike H wrote:



I merely concluded cooler meant less friction. Which must be good?

 
Yep, less friction sounds good to me, assuming the oil is still getting to where it needs.
 
Thumbs Up!
 
Tony
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Brian UK Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03 Feb 2016 at 18:16
Redline will still pour, just very slowly. It has a pressure rating higher than EP 140 oil, but a viscosity or drag which is lower.
Brian.

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Ken-Guzzibear View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Ken-Guzzibear Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03 Feb 2016 at 19:22
The oem EP 90 plus moly has worked for over 250,000 on the vthou !
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote wuckfitracing Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03 Feb 2016 at 19:28
Right so conflicting advice and Im not sure what to do with my Guzzi. I have the leaking oil problem. However I have replaced the seals twice and still it spits a little oil on the rim when ive been out for a run. Its by no means dripping out but its annoying, so the chaps that have used 85w -140 does it work. At the moment 90 doesnt in mine and it has the double seals.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Brian UK Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03 Feb 2016 at 22:13
Why not try 85w/140 and see, it's not as if it would be an expensive experiment. Chances are it would help.
Brian.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Ken-Guzzibear Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03 Feb 2016 at 22:21
Did you "burp" the bevel box? I was told this simple trick after changing the seal and it still wept..... it works. One tip from Guzziology it when renewing any oil seals wipe the edge surfaces with a scotchcloth ...those green ones people use in the kitchen not abrasive enough to mark alloy but really cleans the surface, then wipe with clean non lint cloth with whit spirit on it as white spirit leaves no residue .....
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote wuckfitracing Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04 Feb 2016 at 07:44
I made sure the second time of replacing the seal that everything was keyed in clean and sealed.
Its only when it got hot that it decided to spit small specks on to the wheel.
Im going to change to 85/140 and burp I think to see if it works. 
Report back if its done it. (might be a while off to USA with work for a month)
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